politics
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
view the rest of the comments
Ugh...okay...
First I'll say I can't stand trump and I absolutely believe he participated in insurrection and as such should be barred from holding federal office.
*With that being said...*the fact remains that he's not yet been legally convicted/proven of having done so.
I believe it, you believe it, lots of people believe it, and it may well be fact...but there's been no legal decision that says he participated in an insurrection.
Without that legal ruling...and I can't believe I'm saying this...I don't think that states should be able to strike him from national elections based on a federal level law.
It's less a matter of how I feel about the actual subject and much more because of the legal precedent and implications. Basically, without a legal conviction here, these states are saying, "We (a nebulous definition here that could be as collective as the personally held opinions of a single judge) feel that this person did something so against the best interests of the country that it amounts to insurrection, therefore we're removing that person from our ballots."
And while I agree with them in this specific case, it's not difficult to imagine that, with a precedent like this, you get purple states with a GOP judge, state supreme court, governor, etc. that decide that the Dem candidate in a future election has acted so against their view of the best interests of the nation that they decide it amounts to insurrection and therefore that candidate will be removed from their ballot.
At that point, every single election will be about attempts to remove candidates from ballots in the courts, cheapening and perverting the intentions of 14-3.
To prevent that, IMHO, it needs to be up to the federal level of courts to make such a decision, to say for certain whether a person has violated 14-3, at which point that ruling decides their appearance on a ballot automatically.
Yes, it's unfortunate because in this case a ruling like that from a federal court is unlikely (and if it comes down, it's unlikely to withstand SCOTUS and/or get a horribly muddying ruling like "yes he did insurrection but no, we aren't going to enforce 14-3") but taking the long view of rule of law and judicial precedent, I just feel that states deciding this matter without trial or conviction is opening Pandora's box.
Cmon now, there’s a difference between “against their view” and “instigated and participated in an insurrection.”
This is like arguing that we can’t punish a murderer with jail time because people will start trying to punish people they disagree with, with jail time.
A convicted murderer, sure we can.
Someone accused of murder? Even if it's by millions of people? Without a conviction, don't touch them.
I agree.
But without any official legal declaration of the latter, it's no more substantial than the former...and I'll give you one guess as to which side of the American political system is more willing to abuse that.
I'm not saying Trump should be guaranteed to appear on ballots no matter what...I'm just saying that before he's removed there needs to be something official. A legal finding that he did indeed participate in insurrection.
Once that's officially and legally established, then and only then, 14-3 should be invoked.
And for what it's worth, IMHO, at that point it should be invoked nationwide. As soon as that ruling comes down, Trump is, as a function of that ruling, prevented from appearing on any ballot for any national office, in all states, effective immediately. Any write-in votes for the ineligible candidate are also discarded.
That’s already happened. There was a finding of fact that Trump participated in insurrection by state of Colorado.
https://www.npr.org/2023/11/18/1213961050/colorado-judge-finds-trump-engaged-in-insurrection-but-keeps-him-on-ballot
That’s in part why this is the case the USSC has taken up. It is now established legal fact that Trump participated in insurrection, but 14-3 isn’t super clear that it pertains to POTUS, unlike the clarity for Senators and Representatives.
So there’s no question of guilt. That’s established. It’s now a question of applicability.
There's still room for the USSC to also declare that the state courts finding of fact is incorrect. If I recall the legal analysis, I think that was the consensus as the likely outcome, that the state's finding is not substantiated. There seemed to be doubt that the "doesn't apply" argument will hold, but that will be moot if they say that the Colorado state court can't unilaterally make that finding.
My point was that I feel it should be decided at the federal level, not the state level. The ruling of a Colorado court as to what happened in an area completely outside their jurisdiction shouldn't really matter.
The SCOTUS ruling will be that decision, and while I'm not optimistic that they'll rule to disqualify Trump through 14-3, at least there will be an answer.