Israel has been a dictatorship for Palestinians for a very long time.
this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2023
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They weren't already?
Well before they were an apartheid ethnostate, sort of like America used to be. Democratic, kinda, but only for some.
I guess this is worse?
I think the article confused de facto and de jure
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So much for "the only democracy in the Middle East", eh?
Israel won’t become a dictatorship.
Every week hundreds of thousands of Israeli Jews protest these changes (in a country less than 10 million people).
They have a civil war waiting for them if they go too far - and don’t forget that most of these protesters served in the military.
You forget that Israel collects taxes on Palestinians and then doesn’t let them vote and doesn’t give it to the PA, as well as deprives them of human rights. That’s basically a dictatorship for nearly half the residents.
Taxation without representation really rustles my jimmies. I wonder how the US conservatives will react, could get real antisemitic real quick
Illegal immigrants are taxed all the time. In fact, their contributions to social security (but not withdrawals) are the main thing keeping the program afloat. Republicans love taxation without representation if it isn't white folks.
You forget the huge evangelical segment of the US conservative base, they have a thing for Israel
The only source I could find for something like this were instances where Israeli authorities withheld taxes collected on behalf of the PA due to debts incurred by the PA to the Israeli Electric Corporation.
They don’t let them vote because they’re not citizens. You should ask the PA to let them vote.
No, as repeated punitive actions the Israeli government withheld taxes and import fees that the Israel government collected as part of its border control and that were due to the PA, and they withheld what was owed as a way to punish the PA for supporting UN and ICC actions. This created a crisis as PA employees weren’t being paid and caused work stoppages. It doesn’t matter the excuse; the end result is israel collected taxes on a people and wouldn’t give them representation. It’s further violating international law by taking the land under Palestinians’ feet and giving it to Israelis. It’s still a de facto dictatorship even if you try to use the PA as a Bantustan.
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Yeah that's all well and good but if the us and UK support one way or the other that's the way that is going to win.
Why would the US support this? In fact, the US has been pretty vocal about its opposition to these developments. Regardless of this though, you greatly over estimate the influence of American politics on internal affairs in Israel.
Also, nobody gives a shit about what the UK supports lol.
You'll notice I not once said the us supported anything either way.
I pointed out the truth of the matter, whichever side the major global powers want to win will win.
Yeah cause that’s exactly what happened in Afghanistan and Vietnam.
It did, they got what they wanted and bailed when it behooved them.
What did they get?
A continued military presence in the area and reason to keep the military industrial complex spun up. Same reason for basically every intervention/conflict/war since the American revolution in the case of the us.
Then why did they leave?
In both cases because they're wildly unpopular and in the case of Afghanistan because it started the war on terrors ability to strike anywhere anytime. Make no mistake the us is still in the area and droning with impunity.
They're already a genocidal apartheid state; unrepentant fascist dictatorship seems like an inevitable step, really.
A minority group (they are ~4.5% of the population) got almost complete control of the Knesset due to a combination of stupid vote-rounding method, egoistic politicians and a sad state of affairs in our biggest party.
This small minority is composed of Jew-Nazis, they want to remove any non-Jewish from Israel, be it by them walking or killing them, they regularly go for pogroms in the Palestinians. For the atheistic Jews they plan concentration camps (the exact wording their rabbis signed on!).
The majority of Israelis are against that, so we currently see an unprecedented demonstrations in Israel.
Both the army and the economy are dependent on the parts of the population that are against this shit. For example, the high-tech sector is starting to recover in the US and EU (that much as it exists there), in Israel it continues to crash. It came out of IDF, mostly from IAF, that it capabilities are already reduced. For example, Hezbollah settled two tents inside Israel. If they tried that before the current shit-storm, they would have instantly gotten blown up. Instead, Israel asked nicely through political channels that the tents will be removed.
If the fucktards in the government will pass those laws Israel will implode, I think this implosion can take one of two directions:
- The minority that took over will be kicked out of power, for example by the majority deciding to restart the legal framework of Israel. Bringing the economy to a stand-still to crash the government, etc
- Major players in the economy and defense sector will leave Israel leading to it slow collapse. A faster collapse will happen if the nukes will be taken by the USA.
It is the right and the duty of every citizen to act without violence to stop the destruction of freedom, equality, and the rule of law.
It is the right and the duty of every citizen to act by any means necessary.
I am getting really tired of this milquetoast, noncommittal, theatrical as fuck approach to activism, especially when you trying to defend your country against a literal violent dictatorship from seizing power in your country. Do you think they will be swayed by your strong words, emotional appeals, and the sympathetic screams of those watching the bloodshed? No of course not! These are the same motherfuckers who bomb, rape, and murder mothers and children in an open air prison routinely, and feel no remorse or guilt. This is who you are up against, and until now, you were more or less comfortable with them around as long as they gave you the illusion of freedom.
Now even that is being ripped away from you, and you think your fates will be any different if you throw a punch or voluntarily get your head smashed? They want your full obedience, and they will make examples of you regardless of whether you turn the other cheek or take an actual stand. If you want even a inkling of success in throwing off the people who threaten what's left of your democracy, you better be prepared to throw hands, cause they'll have no hesitation in doing the same to you.
What's the reasonableness standard? (to me that's just a standard of review in appeal courts)
Just now? Come on.
I feel like trying to do this in a country where 2-3 years of military service and training is a requirement for all adults shows a lack of forethought. This seems like a society where you're going to want to try real real hard to keep the people content.
Seems that way, but keep in mind that military service brings with it a military mindset of heirarchy. With everyone being primed to accept a "this person is my superior," falling back on taking orders is a lot more palatable.
You don’t know shit about Israel.
I have lived in Israel my entire life, and have served for 3 years in the IDF.
People don’t just follow orders blindly - in fact, in the IDF, if you receive an extreme order from your superior (for example, if you’re told to harm an innocent person), you WILL go to prison if you follow that order, and it is your obligation to refuse it.
Not to mention the fact the the culture in Israel is extremely informal and lax. Israelis take pride in not following the rules.
Israelis in general are extremely distrusting of authority (think about it - Jews have been suffering because of it for 2000 years).
But how often has refusing an illegal direct order not been punished? “Breaking the Silence” members have risked jail time for refusing to commit war crimes. The military replaced brigade commander Ben Dunkelman for refusing to expel all Arabs from Nazareth under Ben Gurion’s orders.
You’re talking about more myth than reality.
Sorry, but events which happened right after the founding of the country don’t count IMO - the whole area was in chaos and many dumb decisions were made (talking about the Ben Dunkleman case).
“Breaking the Silence” have been caught lying many times - even known biased publications like Haaretz have called them liars.
Elor Azaria, a soldier which killed an incapacitated terrorist a few years ago, claimed that his commander told him to do it. He went to jail anyway.
It’s not a myth, this is fucking drilled into our heads during bootcamp.
What’s “drilled into your heads in boot camp” is still not always enforced. The US military claims to support diversity from top to bottom and yet there’s thousands of documented incidents of sexist and racist assaults of one another that go unpunished and the existence of actual hate groups in the ranks. The reality of IDF is that there’s literally thousands of allegations of criminal behavior that the military refuses to investigate and when they do there’s less than 1% that even face charges, and even the crimes documented on video and convicted get a shockingly small punishment even in cases that led to a death of a Palestinian. This is well documented, stop trying to whitewash it.
Great point, after all we are all familiar with the historical example of the Hitler Youth overthrowing the government in Nazi Germany.
Russia just gave a 10% pay rise to the army
The value of the Russian ruble has fallen by almost half in the last year. They have taken a severe pay cut, that ten percent doesn't even kind of bring them up par.
Fair enough - just adding to the idea having an upset army isn't helpful for those in power
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