this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2023
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Teacher struck off after refusing to use student's pronouns (www.1news.co.nz)
submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
27 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

"The arguments referencing the risk of homosexuality and abortion may well be welcome and normal within the context of [his] private life and views. However they are disgraceful when used in the present context. The balance of [the teacher's] arguments are borne from unrealistic hysteria and we need not go into them further."

Brutal. Good on them for sending such a strong message about their low opinion of bigoted teachers.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The teacher's submissions read: "I have been accused of serious misconduct and deny this charge.

"On the contrary, I believe I would be guilty of serious misconduct and child abuse if I was to call the girl... in my year 10 class by a boy's name as I was compelled to do."

The teacher's lengthy submissions went on to quote the Bible, and make a number of other references to religion.

He also pointed out the conditions required in New Zealand for a person to legally change their name.

"Compelling me to call a girl student by a boy's name is asking me to go against my core Christian belief, the belief that is also foundational for New Zealand," the teacher's submissions read.

Wow. I bet this isn't the first problem they've had with this teacher.

the student suggested a compromise: that the teacher use his preferred name, but could use the pronouns she/her.

It's fucked up the student felt like he had to compromise at all, but then "[the teacher] refused to agree to this and said that 'he didn't want [the student] to go down the path of sin' or words to that effect". I'm glad they cancelled his registration. Poor kid.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is one case when the title really undersells the story.

I am also drawn to this comment like a shark to blood:

He also pointed out the conditions required in New Zealand for a person to legally change their name.

They don't say what he thinks the requirement are, but I've worked with someone who is likely to be the foremost expert on names in NZ (not close enough that they would know my name, though). Legally changing your name is as easy as starting to use the new one. If it's not done in an attempt at identity theft or fraud, and you actually use the name as your own, you have assumed the new name and "legally" it is yours.

The tricky bit is proving your new name to organisations. The bank won't take your word for it, so you need proof. They will ask for a birth certificate or passport, etc, to prove your name. So there is a process needed to change your name on your birth certificate, which is probably what they are referring to.

Do I expect anyone to know or care about this distinction? No, unless you're claiming to know the legal details of changing your name.

Like a shark to blood...

(Do I have proof of any of this? No, I can't work it out in the legislation. Maybe it's common law? I don't know, take with a grain of salt).

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The fact is, if being trans isn't a legally valid reason to change your name, then the law is the problem. And what the law says isn't relevant anyway. It has nothing to do with what a teacher can call their student.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Absolutely, I was just rambling about his lack of knowledge about legal name changes despite claiming to know.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I completely understand. That kind of thing irks me far more than I wish it did.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Nah you’re correct, this is the advice my lawyer gave me about name changes.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Good to know, thanks for confirming!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's really interesting. I always thought it took an appearance in court at least.

I know a person whose middle name was left off their NZ passport but not their British one. It caused an unbelievable bureaucratic nightmare.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That’s really interesting. I always thought it took an appearance in court at least.

"Legally" it's your new name. But in practical terms, that means nothing. You need to get ID documents changed in order to actually do anything.

Basically it means it's legally ok for you to just start going by a different name. But if you want to open a bank account in that name then you'll to get the name added to your birth certificate or other documentation because the bank is not going to just trust you that it's your name.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I wonder how that would play out if you did that with the Police. If they asked for your name and address, you could decide your new name happens to be the name of your flatmate, and give them that. Technically, you haven't lied.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You have to actually use it as your name. If you made it up on the spot, it probably falls under fraud or something similar, so may not be a legal assuming of a new name.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

But couldn't this be the first time you're using it? Some time has to be the first time. Especially if you kept using it after that. I know it's ~~convoluted~~ contrived, I just like playing these things out in my head.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

This is why I want to find the legislation that backs it up! If the rules are written down then it's easier to find loopholes!

If it's just common law, backed up by precedent, that's a lot less fun.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Absolutely deserved. We need to protect our community against anti social people such as this.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Poor kid being forced into a compromise like that, I can't even imagine how belittled they felt.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Where in the bible does it say "thou shalt not refer to a girl with a boy's name" exactly?

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

Indeed, well done. No tolerance to harmful bigotry. Religious beliefs are no excuse for being an appalling human being.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Refreshing to see people actually standing up to these types

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Yeah it must have been a hard decision for the school since teachers are so short right now. good to see they stand by what they say.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

If your religious beliefs conflict with the duties of your job then get another job. Or at the very least try to keep your bigotry secret. It's not rocket science.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is a really good example of what is being discussed in the other post about posting clickbait articles. The title from the 1news article I really misrepresents what happened, it was a lot more than pronouns that got the teacher deregistered. I know it’s the current convention, but reusing their title here spreads the misconception further.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

So what else was it?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

At this meeting, the student suggested a compromise: that the teacher use his preferred name, but could use the pronouns she/her.

Kid clearly being the grownup here... But also shouldn't have had to make this compromise.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Beautiful. Go pray for your rent money, asshole.

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