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this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2024
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Back when Michelle Obama said when they go low, we go high--I told my wife "I really wish that worked in American politics, I really do....but it simply doesn't". My wife disagreed. Because my wife is a mature, kind-hearted Democrat. She thinks you can bring an informational brochure to a bar fight.
Maybe there is a way to de-escalate things and return to more civil "statesmanship" style in our politics. But my guess is that these things follow some kind of up-and-down cycle, and you don't want to be on the side that's lagging.
I saw an article that summarizes people like your wife as those living in a West Wing (TV show) fantasy. I wish we lived in such a world too, but we definitely do not.
I do not mean offense to your wife. I envy people that still have that type of faith.
No offense taken. She has a hard time seeing how nasty it has become. She limits her exposure to the news, which is mostly a good thing.
It isn't a good thing overall if it means she's that out of touch.
Out of touch with what? How ducking awful humans really are?
Out of touch with current politics.
Elaborate. Which part of the GOP platform are we going to talk about? Oh, right, they don't have one. There's literally nothing to discuss.
The part where she thinks you can take information to a bar fight...?
No answer just a downvote. what a coward.
I didn't downvote you (well, I did now), and I replied to you before you commented on this.
Or if you mean I hadn't replied yet to your other, unhinged comment, I'm not on Lemmy all the time.
Wow, you seem really worked up about this.
I was responding specifically to these two comments:
and
I meant that if she is out of touch with political discourse in the nation, about the current state of things, and making bad decisions/recommendations on that (still being in a "West Wing Fantasy world"), it is also not good. Generally, ignorance is worse.
It's not just one or the other.
You can't ignore it, you can't pick it apart and expect people to listen. Even if they listen, now you're spending all your time explaining.
What you is dismiss them quickly and broadly, then talk about what you would do.
They won't waste time trying to talk policy, so they're reduced to making the same insults and getting the same dismissals.
It makes them look "weak" and the more they fight back the crazier shit they have to make up. It's a feedback loop.
Biden tried to do it, he just couldn't string together enough words. Kamala can, but it's not some master strategy, just the common sense response to the situation
Sure, I hear you and what you're saying, and it all makes sense. I think it depends on the time, the place, and the audience. I would say in general there has been a sea change here in the Trump post-truth world. And in general, things are much, much nastier as far as the tone and style goes. Things were very nasty when it came to policy and actual backroom deals back when Reagan took over. But at least the evil old bastard was charming and liked most Americans in his own goofy / phony way. He did pit us against each other but more in the grandpa wants to watch the kids wrestle kind of way compared to Trump's "let's destroy democracy" kind of way.
I also think it's very important that the Democrats continue to be for some things and not just 100% against things like the Republicans are.
Meeting in the middle and taking the high ground has worked a LOT in the past. In about 12 years, though some would argue since 2002, things changed. We can return to a more reasonable time, though I am of the opinion that the modern Republican Party needs to be gutted and replaced before we can do that. They are so far right that they've done a complete circle and have ended up with various heads in far too many asses.
I'm a big picture kind of person and that large magical totally not a portal painting on the wall points to the party being beyond saving.
Yeah I think the winning move is “we can discuss the issues as mature adults whenever you choose to. But until then if you’re going to insist on name calling and fascism I’m going to call you the pathetic weirdo you’re being”
I mean honestly, this is correct. There are likely a few Republicans in positions of some power that disagree with how things have gone. Unfortunately, I feel they are far in the minority. Today it is no longer an issue of mild morality disagreements, or a lack of some fearless leader. The bigots, racists, and fascists have taken over the party.
Now there are ways to change this. Shift the status quo away from their foolish and evil ideologies. BUT it would take commitment from leaders of both parties - NOT assigned leaders, people who are instead well-respected, to step up together. Problem is there is no one on that side of the fence who fits that role right now. Chances are we'd have to vote them in. After all, we can affect that too. If we know a Democrat isn't likely to take a seat, push for the better Republican. No reason we can't move left by yanking and pulling in equal measure.
Fully agree except I don’t think it will be republicans who join us there. I think we’ll end up with a Democrat split once the republicans are unviable
It’s further back than that. Newt Gingrich in the 90s proved that the “fuck you, I’m gonna break your shit” republican strategy was surprisingly (politically) effective in the context of winning American elections and curbing the (publicly apparent) effectiveness of the Democratic Party. The DNC just took over 30 fucking years to fully understand that, and in the interim, the American public has paid the price.
I considered pushing back even into the late 70s. I think though, the shift to the modern mental breakdown really began happening after Sept. 11th. With 2002 really kicking off the U.S. involvement in the middle east as a response to the incident. As we know now pointing the guns at the more convenient (for us) targets. I'm no historian though.
I sure wouldn't miss them.
They go low, we kick them in the teeth.
Knee to the nose would be my personal go to if someone “goes low”
As a democratic compromise i propose we do both
This does seem easier, logistically.
The Alt-Right Playbook: You Go High, We Go Low
I have to upvote Innuendo Studios.
Exactly, we don't go high because they go low, they go low because they know we'll go high.
Have to fight back against the bullies to get them to stop.