this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2024
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10-year-old Fatima Jaafar Abdullah was killed in pager explosions in Lebanon.

Israel murders another kid again.

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[–] [email protected] 95 points 1 month ago (36 children)

I get going after your ‘enemy,’ but this is even worse than firing randomly into a crowd of Palestinians. They pushed a button not knowing who would die. This is low, even for them.

I can’t even think of a devil’s advocate argument for this.

[–] [email protected] 74 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (48 children)

I believe the devil's advocate argument would be that, based on Hezbollah's internal communications, the Mossad intercepted a shipment of pagers which were being purchased to replace their (potentially compromised) mobile phones, knowing that these were - in theory - being distributed exclusively to Hezbollah operatives. That would make it the most precise military strike of all time.

Everyone who launches a rocket is accepting the possibility of "collateral damage", but this is surely the most surgical of surgical strikes in history. And yet, yes, they must have accepted the risk of bystander casualties, which just serves to highlight how awful that logic is. It's definitely not worse than randomly firing into a crowd, though.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 month ago (3 children)

That would make it the most precise military strike of all time.

Pretty sure that honor still goes to the R9X Slap Chop. The pager explosions, on the other hand, injured thousands.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 month ago

Fat electrician had a great video on this.

Soo accurate that if the target is in a car you need to know what seat.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I really don't get it. Other than the "WAOW" factor, this certainly can't have been a good use of resources for Israel.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago (2 children)

They already believed their communications were being intercepted so switched to another method.

That method then literally blew up in their pockets.

The amount of fear and distrust of the supply chain can’t be overstated.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I dunno man. I just feel like if you're at the point where you can clandestinely intercept huge amounts of your enemy's personal communication devices, 'turn them into bombs' feels like a bit of a low-yield outcome.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Consider it backwards: Israel sees this attack happening so valuable, that they were willing to forego using the pagers for spying.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Alternately this proves that they still are intercepting their communication AND can intervene in their supply chain.

I assure you that basically every nation state in FVEY (and then Israel by proxy) has the ability to intercept your communication.

This is something that ought to be considered as a basic entry level accepted threat.

NOW they know they have to worry about shit blowing up randomly, brand new stuff.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

They thought the pagers were secure communication devices. Now they know they are not. Hezbollah was maybe planning to escalate its attacks on Israel, without good, secure communications, they probably can't. On the flip side, if Israel decides to invade Southern Lebanon to escalate things with Hezbollah, Hezbollah is going to have a much tougher time coordinating its defense since its supposed 'secure' communication system has just been blown up, the previous system (cell phones) what already suspected of being compromised, and now today, walkie-talkies used by the senior Hezbollah leadership have also exploded.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

This is not normal for cyber ops. The only thing really that makes sense is if they needed to buy time so set off the pagers. Otherwise they just set their compromised communications devices on fire and told them they did it.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (8 children)

In which world getting thousands of Hezbolla operatives unwittingly keeping a bomb in their pocket would not be a good use of resources for Israel?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

I guess I should have qualified that to exclude individual assassinations, otherwise you'd have to include snipers and whatever. I almost don't believe that "knife missile" is real (quotation marks because the only real knife missiles are Culture technology).

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I feel like people are missing one of the more heinous aspects of this, which is that it injured thousands of people and only managed to kill ~10 of their targets. The outcome of this attack is going to be general terror and potentially hundreds of life altering injuries but very little military advantage.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

The advantage is huge. 1000s of militants are now seriously injured and are no longer battle ready. Many will never be again. Massive success for Israel, and one of the most precision strikes ever used. Now there will be fear from any communication devise exploding, there will be 1000s of man hours wasted taking other stuff apart to check it, and morale will be down as well.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Now westerners will worry when lining up for concerts or flights and the increased security expenditure will impact their economy

I guess you support ISIS terror attacks as a brilliant play too?

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Correct.

Killing civilians isn't a war crime. Deliberately killing civilians, or not taking reasonable steps to minimize civilian casualties is a war crime.

"Small" explosive that is embedded in something passed to and likely worn by the target is unlikely to be a war crime. If they somehow snuck a 1000lb bomb into one it absolutely would be however.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Booby trapping objects associated with daily civilian use is a war crime

These pagers were distributed to doctors and nurses, so I would also argue that they were booby trapping medical supplies, which are protected.

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