this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2023
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Apple
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I'm a Linux/Android guy historically and I have to say I really love the stance Apple takes on privacy versus Google's more, uh, laxe privacy stance. Knowing my phone OS that I carry everywhere with me wasn't designed by a company selling my data would be a significant plus and has had me rethinking things lately. A lot more than, say, whether I prefer the UI or customizability or the camera suite.
Yes I'm conflicted. I don't like the tracking Google does but I do love how Android has so much more FOSS apps.
If you want Android, you could just install a degoogled Android rom on a phone that support it.
Fdroid is great.
I would switch to iphone myself if it wasn't for sideloading, and ublock origin in Firefox.
If you can manage to use a non-Firefox browser, there are other adblocking browsers available for iOS. I use Ecosia, but Brave and even Safari support adblocking extensions now.
TIL on Firefox having an adblocker natively. May have to give it another whirl.
Firefox has an ad blocker? Ooooo that’s very enticing
As someone who works in Cybersecurity, I read a lot of security reports. I haven't seen an iPhone be the most private/secure phone in about half a decade.
It doesn’t have to be the most secure. It just has to be secure for the majority of use cases.
Sure. I'm just saying it's not an advantage of iOS.
You’re acting like you don’t realize that there is a difference between end user privacy, and security from targeted attacks.
I don’t really care how hard it would be for a motivated attacker to target me and breach the security of my device.
I do really care about how hard it is for every website on earth to know intimate, personal details about my life.
iOS is the only sane choice.
No. I'm very aware.
Android gives you full control over the permissions given to apps just like iOS does.
And since you can download additional browsers and browser plugins that aren't just repackaged Safari, you can have a lot more control over your Internet privacy if you want it.
Google’s entire profit model is offering software for free so that they can gather data and sell ads.
Granular app permissions are a start, but barely. Cross-app tracking is a bigger deal, and Apple is miles ahead of Google there; and Google is never going to catch up, because it would destroy their revenue search.
I’ve used both platforms extensively, I actually love Android. Google assistant is so much better than Siri that it’s obnoxious, custom roms are a ton of fun, having a way to get root access on a device is so important it should be legally required.
But, if you think that a company that exists to build an advertising profile and sell ads will ever produce a device that meaningfully blocks the ability to build an advertising profile, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
Google restricts Cross app tracking and you can entirely disable the ad profile.
They will continue to make money off of the users who don't care, while capturing more market from those who do.
I’m talking about blocking cross app tracking, not “restricting” it. Still, Google does not even restrict cross app tracking. They’ve announced a planned muli-year (their words) initiative to restrict cross app tracking- but, importantly, they’ve very clearly expressed that they’re going to work with advertisers to make sure that what they plan isn’t too disruptive. Which should be obvious anyway, because advertisers are literally their only real paying customers.
All that Google is interested in doing is finding the absolute minimum that they can do to give the illusion that they care about privacy, all without having to do anything that meaningfully protects user data. And only after Apple makes a huge change that devours even more of Google’s market share.
If you’re thinking about the current feature in android that allows users to “disable” cross app tracking, it actually doesn’t. It just disable Google’s advertising ID, but still let’s any app who wants to fingerprint your device using IP address and device serial.
No. What they've done is made a local Ad ID that can be used locally on your device without interacting with another app. But you can disable it.
Plus, on Android you can literally completely sandbox apps: https://www.gtricks.com/android/how-to-sandbox-android-apps-for-privacy/
Or use a VPN if you're worried about IP/Device tracking.
No. Sandboxed apps only prevent some fingerprinting, but notably provides a ‘reasonable budget’ for data that can be gathered.
What you said about the advertising ID is true and is basically what I said, but disabling the advertising ID does not stop profiling or fingerprinting, just limits the most obvious applications of it.
Using a VPN is a start, but we’re comparing the privacy of Android and iOS. You can use a VPN on both. iOS includes an opt-in pseudo-vpn baked into the OS with private relay, for $0.99 per month. And besides, using a VPN does nothing to block the the fingerprinting done by native apps.
Are you sure you work in security? Like, mall security?
Sandboxes absolutely prevent all cross-app tracking. The app doesn't have access to anything outside the sandbox.
What useful tracking do you think is still happening when you take these precautions?
So then what difference does it make? You can use whatever VPN you want.
Yes. Stick to the topic. The ad-hominem is just childish.
Android app sideloading utilized something called a “privacy budget,” where the system does give sandboxed apps access to “limited” device data. The idea is that Google “doesn’t want to break the app functionality,” so Android provides details about the device as long as the app isn’t requesting “too much.”
Of course it’s possible to to completely sandbox an app without breaking it, but, again, Google is an adtech company and providing their customers with users that they can target with ads is literally their only goal.
I stopped reading your reply after your first paragraph because you’ve established a very predictable pattern of having no idea what you’re talking about.
What makes you think apple doesn't harvest your data for pretty much the same purposes as Google?
Because apples goal is to sell you hardware. Privacy sells hardware. Googles goal is to have manufacturers use their OS for free so they can harvest and sell data, and maintain control of the mobile ad space.
I’m not saying Apple is a moral company far from it, but it has business incentive to build with privacy at the core, Google has the opposite.
The problem is Apple won't be able to just rely on that forever. Eventually when Macbook Airs are starting at $2999 and people can't afford their hardware, they'll start cutting into user data more if they haven't reached that point yet. Just because a business model supports a virtue doesn't mean that company will always abide by their previous moral commitments. Google once said "Don't be evil"
Yes, the THREE-trillion dollar, 50-year-old company that figuratively just prints money is going to become so desperate that they will abandon their extremely profitable business model to become… an ad agency?
The absolutely irrelevant reference to a vague PR line in Googles old corporate code of conduct was a nice touch, though
Yes, that's what's going to happen, but maybe not for an ads platform. Your rights are on the chopping block, but don't worry though, because by that point you'll be convinced that giving up your privacy and any individual thought is entirely within your self interest. Ideas like "Big company, much value, can't possibly want more money" is pretty much halfway down the line.
Great work doing their work to convince yourself, for them.
They're a computer company. Their primary revenue streams are from hardware, software, and services, not from selling ads.
Apple is a corporation that has no ideals or principles, by design. They only care about profit at any cost, and currently support a level of privacy they are comfortable with, because their analysts have surmised that supporting this level of privacy gives a net positive of consumer goodwill over lost ad revenue. Once it gets to a point where that inequality flips over to show a profit in selling user data, that's exactly what they're going to do. Sure, they're not going to reverse directions, right away, no. They have an army of extremely well paid, entirely unscrupulous behavioural psychologists and consumer trend analysts whose job it is to convince you that you want whatever it is that the company wants.
All the corporation ass-kissing just makes me sick. It's like being a sheep in a herd all collectively moving to the edge of a cliff with no power for any individual to change course.
Dude it’s sad how obviously desperate you are to be personally offended by apple. Nobody here is claiming that they’re a company with morals, or that they do anything out of the goodness of their heart.
Apple targets a market segment that prioritizes data privacy. They’re under a ton of scrutiny from their users, and stand to lose considerable business if they start compromising on privacy.
Likewise, they’ve been gaining more and more market share in the US, largely from people who are switching because of Apple’s stance on privacy.
The best way for them to maximize profits is for them to continue to prioritize user privacy, which is why it’s easy to believe that they’ll do so.
@Tangent5280 I hope you feel better now that you’ve got that off your chest. Maybe try taking a few deep breaths as well.
Google are literally an ad company. Apple aren’t.
Apple also sells user data
It's not a binary issue. Google's entire business model is dependent on it. Apple's is not, so they don't do it nearly to the same extent.
That doesn't mean we have to conclude apple is the good guy.
They can both be shitty corporations. This assignment is not graded on curve.
no one said apple is "the good guy". The only thing the top comment said is they prefer apple's stance on privacy compared to google.
like many things in life if your options are all shitty, then you'll probably opt for the least shitty option. So in that sense your choice between apple or google is "graded on a curve". You're just trying to justify a false equivalence.
Apple sells hardware. Google sells data.
https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-france-ads-fine-illegal-data-1849950163
Sure, but that's not why this is happening. More likely it's younger generations of people growing up with their friends having an iPhone and peer pressure forcing them to want one as well their parents buying them an iPhone because it's what they know.
I don't know about calling Google more laxe since they are actively taking your data.