this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
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the_dunk_tank
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It's the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
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No, it isn't. Russia is making an unprovoked attack on Ukraine. Allowing them to have any benefits from this attack at all encourages them to try this again, which they certainly would. Trusting Russia to keep to an agreement is like trusting a dingo in a nursery. They promised to respect Ukraine's territory in exchange for Ukraine giving up their nuclear arsenal, and this is the result. The United States guaranteed their security as part of this deal. If Russia were honest, they would never have invaded. If the US were honest, they would have put boots on the ground and sent their own military in to counter the invasion. At the end of the day, Ukraine should've just kept the nukes.
There will be peace when Putin is dead and Russia withdrawals.
Shelling Donbas for 8 years and agreeing to peace accords before violating them immediately doesn't count as provocation?
The war started when Russia invaded the Donbas, so no.
What do you consider the civil war then, just an oopsie whoopsie?
Tfw you uncritically consume so much Murdoch media that your brain leaks out of your ears.
This is where I stopped reading. Framing global politics through this lens is silly. Russia isn't your cheating ex - they're a global power making strategic decisions based on their material interests, just like every other nation. Trust is just the metric by which we measure how their interests align with our own. And yeah, they're uh... on the other side of the war. Of course there is no trust.
If what you want to say is that Russia's victory would somehow incentivize them to conduct a campaign of imperial expansion, explain how. If your intent was simply to tell us that we shouldn't trust those dirty, no good, double-crossin' Russians, okay, cool. Mission accomplished.
Shelling the Donbass for 8 years doesn't count I guess
This is a deeply ironic thing to say considering none of this would have happened if Ukraine just kept to the Minsk Agreements
I'm not trying to be rude because your original question seemed to be asked in decent faith, but this is an absurdly simplistic and unrealistic view.
Do you actually think that if Putin had a heart attack tomorrow the war would end? This is war caused by over a decade of political decisions and serious material interests. No one in Putin's government, party, the media, or even the opposition would support a Russian surrender or peace agreement that doesn't maintain regions like the Donbas.
And beyond that, Russia has no incentive to withdraw prematurely but plenty of very serious reasons not to.
It's a different lib this time, probably an aussie, let em have it
There is a lot of concern trolling and "good faith, I just want to know" in front of a lot of bigoted people. I can understand the aggressive stance.
I totally agree, but plenty of people taken that stance already so I thought there might be value in taking a different tack.
Would have been pretty useless. Keys to the nukes were in Moscow. Ukies tried to crack them, couldn't do it, returned it to get money, then squandered the money.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
It's right there in the last paragraph of the overview, lol.
LOL shut the fuck up you demented ape, I guarantee that whatever western shithole you're typing this from has its fair share of "unpunished invasions".
Wrong and incredibly stupid. Although this recent encroachment was a strategic blunder by the Kremlin, there was plenty provocation from the West, escalating ever since Russia started opposing actions America took as global hegemon back in the early 2000s (like the actual invasion of Iraq) to the foreign interference and antidemicratic coup of Euromaidan back in 2014, which is when you'd know the war really started if you'd bothered to look into this issue further than channel 9 and that one soy video on YouTube about Ukraine's nukes.
"We should have more puppet states of the genocidal American empire armed with WMDs, what's the worst that could possibly happen??"
This is literally just "LE RUSSIAN DISHONEST DINGO ORK HORDE, GENETIC LIARS MUST DESTROY BCUZ BREAK PINKIE PROMISE!!!!" More racist right wing warmongering against the Russian people to excuse an incredibly violent escalation of conflict so NATO can secure its imperialist interests on a mountain of innocent Russian and Ukrainian corpses. That stupid treaty is irrelevant because it holds no more weight than the given international laws that state a country has to respect the sovereignty of its neighbours and pursue no military encroachments onto their territory. Something that every western nation has either broken or supported the breaking of for a third world nation.
And most of all, why the hell should Russia accept a treaty on "muh independence" drawn up and solely policed by a corrupt oligarchic settler colonial police state that has its own fucking record of genocidal unlawful invasions into foreign lands near and far? Where the is the fucking UN in all of this?
So you'd accept living in a city where the code of criminal justice is written and policed by a violent mafia syndicate? Fuck off, it is absurd to follow the laws written by a hypocrite with your worst interests in mind.
It was literally just America pre emptively securing an excuse to kill thousands of Russians in retaliation should it ever even think of threatening it's murderous interests by reforming the USSR starting with Ukraine.
At the end of the day you're just another racist useful idiot for the Wests genocidal warmongering agenda against its enemies disguising a perverse desire to cause a level of slaughter on par with world war 3 behind a crude sense of justice.
Fucking demonic troglodyte, you want to die in a sea of nuclear fire that badly? Sure then, go book a one way trip to the sun and take your bloodthirsty imperialist fantasies with you so the rest of humanity can live in peace.
They aren't the same people