this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2023
762 points (92.5% liked)
Memes
45545 readers
1051 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Okay hate on capitalism, fair enough
But equating it to literal slavery like we've had in the past (and still have in some parts of the world) seems problematic to me
— Frederick Douglass
I suspect that most other actual slaves would not entirely agree with that sentiment
Frederick Douglass the famous non-slave
Your original stance was that it is "problematic" to equate them. Do you think it was problematic for Fredrick Douglass to equate them? If not then your original position has to change.
We don't have polling on prior chattel slave views on wage slavery, but since you're making a habit of just going with your gut, I'll do the same. I'd wager most prior chattel slaves would've been more than happy to abolish all forms of slavery (including wage slavery).
Douglass died in 1895 when the standard of living was wildly lower than what it is today, its not an equivalent comparison
“Gee, I know I said all that about wage slavery, but who could have predicted iPhones and corn syrup. This is great!”
Read the shit you’re making claims about.
Why don't you do the same? Your original quote is 137 years old. It is in fact problematic to equate the economic landscape of 2023 to that of 1886. In that quote Douglass is specifically criticizing the treatment of freed slaves, not capitalism in general. (If you want to convince people capitalism is bad, you need to make valid criticisms, not twist old quotes to suit your narrative)
If the age of an idea is a judge of its quality, the old man of capital is defeated by the youthful zeal of communism.
I got the quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery
Where did you hear that it was specific only to freed slaves?
From Citation 33 of the Wikipedia article you linked. Reading the original source provides the context of the quote.
Ok that's what I read too. The Wikipedians and I must be interpreting it differently.
Your stance still needs to change then. Your issue isn't comparing wage slavery with chattel slavery, it's comparing slavery when the standard of living has improved.
Now this stance is still problematic, imagine we lost the civil war and the north became socialist, abolishing wage slavery. The south would have chattel slavery and the north would have no slavery. Now imagine the standard of living for chattel slaves vastly improved, and someone then tried to compare "modern day chattel slaves to wage slaves". Your stance would then be this is wildly unfair to modern day chattel slaves because wage slaves had a worse standard of living, a position we both understand is ridiculous.
Has chattel slavery been replaced with wage slavery for a large population since then? (Actually asking, not rhetorical)
If living conditions have improved for wage slaves but not for chattel slaves, then I'd imagine they would agree with you.
Why?
we definitely still have slavery in America. Like, in America. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of companies that outsource their slavery to other countries and then ship the product here so we can pretend it's not made by slaves, but plenty of companies skip the middle man and just use slaves here
The whip makes the joke that they are slaves but it's believed it was mostly wage earners build the pyramids. The joke still stands though. I mean it's a fucking mausoleum. Wasting societies resources for a vanity project. The irony of his statement holds either way, as a wage laborer or a slave.
What literal slavery? The pyramids weren’t built with slave labor.
There's a dude with a whip in the picture, so it seems like the artist believes it was slave labor
It’s a common misconception.
Having 100% exclusive rights over the fruits of a person's labor, so, a job.
Ever applied for a mortgage?
But they don't. I can end this arrangement at any point in time.
Yes, and I can't remember anyone forcing me to buy this specific apartment, or preventing me from selling it and moving anywhere else.
Regardless, my point wasn't that work isn't slavery, my point is that the pyramids weren't built with slave labor.
Never mind the foreign interest campaigns to get Americans to be less productive
It’s laughable, really. A country where one person could go to work while the other one could stay at home and still afford a house and a car at least.
American citizens got reamed by megacorps and some even enjoy it.
People are getting paid to fuck?
Do you have a link or source for this? Never heard it before