this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2023
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With the 2024 presidential race beginning to unfold, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont said he believes that President Joe Biden will again earn the Democratic nomination — and the president likely win reelection if he runs on a strong progressive campaign.

"I think at this moment ... we have got to bring the progressive community together to say, you know what, we're going to fight for a progressive agenda but we cannot have four more years of Donald Trump in the White House," Sanders said Sunday on "Face the Nation."

Sanders endorsed Mr. Biden in April. Sanders referenced several of those issues in underscoring what he believes is the importance of building "a strong progressive agenda" to win the presidency in 2024.

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[–] [email protected] 67 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Look, I'd love for that to be true, but it just isn't. Biden will win by being a boring centrist, because that's who he is and that's who will win a general election (generally speaking).

With the GOP going completely off the rails the easiest path to victory is to simply go middle of the road and pick up all those independents/centrists and conservatives with brains. Progressives will vote Biden regardless because Trump (or any Trump wannabe) is too terrifying of a reality.

This country has never shown it has some giant progressive silent majority - Bernie would know, he bet and lost on that materializing in his own presidential runs.

I don't see Democrats running hard on progressive policies until either the GOP starts running moderates again (forcing Democrats to pickup votes elsewhere) or young people prove they can be a force at the ballot box.

All this is not to shit on what Biden has achieved, because he has done things for progressives, but I don't see him suddenly switching to anything resembling a "strong progressive agenda" because it will just give his GOP opponent ammo to claim "see he's radical too". Biden will be the most boring, normal politician he can, while highlighting how bad things will get if his extreme opponent gets into office, and that's probably the smartest thing to do.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (21 children)

This country has never shown it has some giant progressive silent majority - Bernie would know, he bet and lost on that materializing in his own presidential runs.

nonsense. The dems pulled the dirtiest tricks to kneecap bernie - including ALL of them dropping out on super Tuesday. They battled bernie harder than they fucking did trump. Don't spread garbage like this

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The dems pulled the dirtiest tricks to kneecap bernie

This was, of course, documented in the Wikileaks e-mails, whose contents were largely ignored by the mainstream media.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

They never disputed the contents either.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wikileaks selectively leaks emails to push whatever narrative they want, including leaving off timestamps to make you think emails were sent before they were. The RNC was hacked too, but we didn't see those emails. There's one corrupt country that hasn't ever seemed to be attacked by Wikileaks. I wonder what all this has in common?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I wonder what all this has in common?

speculation

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Bernie had a surprising turnout, and the Dems had to pull all the stops to prevent him from being the front runner. Meaning something in the ballpark of a quarter of Americans who actually bother to vote were supporting him. Far from a majority, but to your point, it's a big and growing political force.

But I think the point stands that they aren't likely to swing a general election. Progressives (those that actually vote at all) are almost certainly going to vote for Biden regardless how how much he panders to them. This election will be decided by a fairly small number of centrists and moderate Republicans that may have been alienated by Trump who happen to live in swing states.

Unless, of course, Biden does something monumentally stupid and pisses off the progressives so bad that they are willing to risk another Trump term and vote 3rd party, which seems unlikely.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (17 children)

The way people vote and the policies people actually want enacted are very different. If you're talking specifically about how people vote, there's a lot you can infer as to why they vote the way they do, but if we're talking about actual policy - if people voted for policies instead of politicians, the vast majority of americans are very progressive. This is the point I was disagreeing with the commenter on.

The polls bear it out time and time again - people want progressive policy, but are afraid to vote for progressive politicians, and hedge their bets on the "safe" candidate.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I've yet to see any evidence that there was some orchestrated agenda against Bernie. Sure, all the moderates probably did drop out so that moderate Biden could win against Bernie. What's wrong with that? Isn't that sort of implicitly how it works and should work? They made a choice that sacrified their own candidacy for the sake of advancing their policy goals (through Biden).

Nor have I seen any evidence that the DNC orchestrated some sting against Bernie in 2016 - the most that ever came out of that leaked trove of DNC emails were some DNC staff saying they wanted Hillary to win - not that they were going to take any action to make that happen.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Sure, all the moderates probably did drop out so that moderate Biden could win against Bernie.

I was a bit disappointed and wanted Bernie, but you're right that there wasn't really anything wrong with them doing that.

Not only that, but it showed that they aren't like the crabs in a bucket Republicans who failed to do the same because of their own egos and allowed Trump to ascend to the nomination through a series of plurality wins.

In my opinion, it shows they aren't dumb fascists and actually put the party and their country ahead of their own power and self-interest.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

We can go even further and assume the democrats were all purely working in good faith, with the end goal of helping people. Even if that were the case, the idea that americans don't want progressive policy is still garbage and is completely trashed by polling. The polling alone disproves the commenter's completely contrafactual claim. It's demonstrably wrong on several levels.

regardless, the DNC could just overrule the results of the primaries if they wanted to and it'd be above board. It's completely legal. Biden could win 100% of the vote in every primary and they could put forward some random dude from Kentucky as their candidate and it would be "how it works". I disagree that that's how it should work.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Sad but harsh reality, it's not pretty but just how democracy functions under FPTP-voting with zero campaign finance subsidy available. If you can't pick up popularity in one of the two big parties you're shit out of options in the current system - designed by wealthy romans for the benefit of wealthy romans. If not allowed to evolve the great experiment is doomed at the whim of the super rich whenever enough lose their minds into fascism.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

because it will just give his GOP opponent ammo to claim "see he's radical too".

But they already do that, so why care?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

I voted for Biden in hopes that

  1. The clown show would be over

  2. We would get one nice progressive win.

He gave me half of what I wanted. So I guess partial victory.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

With the GOP going completely off the rails the easiest path to victory is to simply go middle of the road and pick up all those independents/centrists and conservatives with brains.

I think we may have found out that's a risky strategy in the general election in 2016. It's as if having a choice between a status quo centrist and republican crazies isn't good for turnout- when the American Dream is increasingly regarded to be a cruel joke by young voters and the result is such low turnout that if 'did not vote' had been a candidate it would have won, maybe it's time for the Dems do some soul searching here.

I don’t see him suddenly switching to anything resembling a “strong progressive agenda” because it will just give his GOP opponent ammo to claim “see he’s radical too”.

I don't see him switching either, and in any case it doesn't make sense for him to run away from progressives to avoid being called radical- after all, they're calling him radical anyhow and it's unlikely they'd stop doing that

To the extent that running to 'the center' is seen as just appeasing Republicans in trade for no benefit to anyone but those Republicans (I think it is seen that way by a lot of younger, left and independent voters), I take the view that the one thing the Democrats must do (if they do nothing else) is keep on pressing hard on antitrust enforcement and restoring unions and labor protections and promoting environmental protection. If they don't, I expect a lot of stupid protest votes going to the green party or other splitter factions set there to split the democrats and lower the bar enough for the GOP to heave a fascist boomer into the white house where they will finish the job of dismantling American democracy

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