this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
9 points (76.5% liked)

Men's Liberation

1844 readers
2 users here now

This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.


Rules

Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people


Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.



Be productive


Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.

Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:

  • Build upon the OP
  • Discuss concepts rather than semantics
  • No low effort comments
  • No personal attacks


Assume good faith


Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.



No bigotry


Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.



No brigading


Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.



Recommended Reading

Related Communities

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
9
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

From the video starting at 41:05:

We're all clear on the problem.

What's the solution?

Rory got a quote for us that we're gonna use. This is a book called The Will To Change by bell hooks. She's one of the leading feminists. That—it writes about patriarchy. And this is a quote right here by her. It says:

By learning the arts of compartmentalization, dissimulation, and disassociation, men are able to see themselves as acting with integrity in cases where they are not. Their learned state of psychological denial is severe...Since most men have been socialized to believe that compartmentalization is a positive practice, it feels right, it feels comfortable. To practice integrity, then, is difficult; it hurts. Peck makes the crucial point: “Integrity is painful. But without it there can be no wholeness.” To be whole men must practice integrity.


One thing I think missing from this instance is a discussion about solutions to toxic masculinity and how incredibly difficult it can be to live them. It's easy to say men need to be more emotionally available, less violent, value themselves for who they are rather than what they do and how they perform. And while this video doesn't really demonstrate men doing that, they discuss their lived experiences and explore that difficulty. One of the guys towards the end even asks, "I hear what you're saying. But, when I go home, how do you honestly expect me to teach this to my young son?"...or something to that effect.

I thought the documentary was interesting for really emphasizing that being a better man isn't easy and that it may be even harder to sustain it.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's just called integrity.

There are already words for these things, there is no need to make up overly complicated variations on it, especially when these variations are actually more vague than just using the word integrity.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean...yeah.

That's exactly what it's called. Did you watch the video??

But as the original quote says, patriarchy encourages compartmentalization, where men believe they act with integrity when they really don't. To some extent, then it's enough to say "that's just called integrity". Many men have a false sense of it. How can we differentiate between the two? By referencing the idea of compartmentalization and wholeness.

That is, it's as complicated as it needs to be for language to describe the exceedingly complex world of human behavior.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How about "consistent", then? What's more complicated about this than a simple lack of consistency?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Feelings of being consistent when you're not.