this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
735 points (95.8% liked)
Technology
59132 readers
3945 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
The pressure doesn't matter, apple makes a legitimate amount of money from people scared of being a different colored bubble. Unless someone actually writes it into law and makes a provision that all the bubbles must appear the same, nothing will change
This is weirdly only a thing in America. In Europe, where I live, iMessage isn’t that popular and iPhone users never seem to care about the bubble colour (likely because WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Element, and Threema are so popular, everyone is used to using multiple chat apps anyway).
Edit: Also I’m not sure why everyone is championing RCS - it’s yet another proprietary communication standard like iMessage and isn’t open thus can’t be easily implemented in other chat apps.
Rather then pressure Apple to support and further popularise another closed protocol, we should be pushing for something open like Matrix or Signal.
RCS is an implementation of GSMA Universal Profile and is interoperable with it
I don’t see any public license for GSMA Universal Profile and it seems you have to engage directly with GSMA to get any detail on the standard. Very much the opposite of things like Signal which not only are the standards public but so are the reference implementations.
I still don’t see an argument for why yet another proprietary standard and protocol is a good thing.
It is controlled and monetizable by the telcos. It isn’t better. And it’s barely standardized. Google sells a service to telcos to implement RCS that doesn’t really work well with anyone else’s RCS, or didn’t.
Go look at the amount of threads with people saying “my RCS message from my Samsung didn’t get to my friend on T-Mobile with a pixel”.
This is not the future anyone deserves.
I have never heard of anyone in the U.S. who cares about the bubble color either. The only reason I ever cared was that it used to mean there was a good chance it wouldn't get through if it was a green bubble, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. I've gotten iPhone-to-iPhone green bubbles when there's been some sort of communication difficulty to Apple's servers and it had to go straight SMS.
Are you dating or in school at the moment? I if not, it might be that you’re just oblivious to this trend, because it is definitely a thing in many social circles.
Seeems mostly a US centric thing though. I've never experienced this, 99% of people here with smartphones have whatsapp/telegram and use that almost exclusively, even iphone users.
No one said it wasn’t, but US is the largest and most affluent market and therefore the only one that matters. /s
I haven't encountered any adults who actually care about that in one-on-one conversations. I have however been excluded from group chats because mixing iMessage and SMS users resulted in a degraded experience. The iPhone users were, of course unwilling to consider installing any other chat app.
I find the last bit pretty annoying. It takes about 45 seconds to download Signal and confirm your number.
I just had that conversation with a group of adults who all had iPhones and were unwilling to add non-iPhone people to a group or change messaging apps.
The reasons given were:
The conclusion by the group was "just buy an iPhone!"
And that's a group of adults. I can't imagine the bullying and peer pressure teenagers have to face over something as idiotic as messaging apps.
Meanwhile, I have six messaging apps on my phone (which is neither new nor high-end) and would be willing to install most others (not Facebook chat or Instagram) if it made communication easier for someone.
I have to say that in Denmark at least, iMessage seems to thrive quite well. There are quite a lot using Facebook messenger, but SMS and iMessage is a close second. This is entirely from my point of view. Never met anyone using the examples you mention, unless they are communicating with foreigners on a daily basis.
In finland everyone I know uses WhatsApp, and my friend circle and family also use Signal. So, eh.
It's popular in Sweden too
My guy, this entire article is about Google and Samsung trying to convince Apple to adopt RCS.
Is a completely open standard better? Yeah, absolutely.
Would RCS basically create unified rich communication for virtually everyone? Also yes.
RCS isn’t open at all in practice and anyone who wants to put the carriers (or more likely Google) in control of messaging is a moron.
Nobody wants to do that, except that the alternative is SMS, which is much much worse.
Two related issues are being confused/conflated here.
The first is the American cultural significance of the green and blue bubbles. This is the thing that Europeans generally don't care about as most are using WhatsApp et. al.
The second is the lack of interoperability between chat protocols such that it degrades the experience for everyone. This is what the EU is targeting.
I don't think the colours of chat bubbles for specific devices as displayed by other specific devices falls under that remit. The implementor must comply with providing the same service level though. Whether or not this will lead to less cultural significance for bubble hues in the US remains to be seen.
It won't be with RCS. The "gatekeeper" criteria applies to interoperation between dominant technologies. RCS has very small adoption in Europe. If iMessage will make the cut it will have to integrate with Whatsapp, Facebook Messenger and Signal.
Edit: I should clarify, there's RCS the standard and there's Google's implementation. Google's RCS is too small to be considered for itntegration. The standard on the other hand would be nice, in an ideal world; however, merging proprietary networks into an open standard is a very high goal and goes beyond what the EU wants to attempt at this time. Instead it will let the tech owners achieve interoperability in any way they want and can.
I don’t get why more people don’t understand this. There is literally no way Apple is going to ditch iMessage or open it up voluntarily.
Cue the EU.
They already got Apple on USB-C, repairability and RCS are next.
There's a difference between USB and RCS though. With RCS the standard was stillborn and the only surviving implementation is alive because it's Google-controlled and represents their Nth attempt at a message platform. I don't want to see something controlled by Google become a standard of communication. We've already seen what happens to such de facto standards, they have very bad aspects.
The EU will not mandate RCS, just like they did not mandate USB explicitly.
They will only mandate standardization, which will force Apple, Google and Meta (as owner of WhatsApp) to agree on a standard and then enforce that standard.
RCS is just the most likely outcome.
Maybe. Google certainly has a vested interest in RCS — but the others don't. RCS is a large standard which goes beyond interconnecting networks. They can just as well design something smaller that only achieves the minimum necessary.
You have to keep in mind that these companies don't want this. If they can waste time designing a new standard, they will. They are also not looking to re-implement their entire networks,, they most certainly don't want to "open them up", they just want to comply with the letter of the law with as little change as possible.
Also keep in mind that RCS has glaring faults, such as the lack of encryption.
My guess is that they're going to try to agree on a common message format, common API and common encryption protocol and leave it at that. There are already plenty of standards out there that cover these needs.
Perhaps. I am unfamiliar with merits of RCS versus alternatives.
Howsver, any solution that enables extra proprietary functionality outside of the standard would be non-compliant, so I don't think they will be able to get a half-baked solution through.
Also, the EU has zero interest to play softball with these companies. If they can punish them with a billion euro fine for not complying, they definitely will.
Again, there is no particular standard being mandated for this. The EU just wants interoperability – being able to communicate to a person using iMessage on their phone from your phone using Whatsapp for example. How the providers accomplish it is their business. The only pressure will be to not degrade the user's experience to the point the interop becomes a liability rather than a boon.
OK but they cannot simply slap fines on them and call it a day. If the companies say "what you're asking for is too difficult" they will need to take the time to examine this claim. In fact I can guarantee right now that we'll see the deadline extended at least once.
We're saying the same thing.
iMessage isn't anywhere near as popular in the EU as it is in the US, so it's just not as big of a problem for them to target and apple is doing a good job lobbying them not to
They’ll find some way to make it cumbersome and difficult to use so that no one bothers.
I'm sure their shareholders will appreciate getting billion euro fines.
/s
At best they will keep it out of the US market, until US regulators get up to speed.