this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2023
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“Drivers will retaliate against you if you do not cover the part of their wage we refuse to pay them.”
There, fixed that for you, DoorDash.
I used to work in that crummy space on the HQ side of things.
That’s a little part of it, but there are bigger reasons. Orders with low driver payouts are less likely to get claimed by the contractors in the market. They will sit around longer waiting to get picked up.
Moreover, in order to move a low paying order, DoorDash’s algorithm will be more likely to bundle the order with one or two other orders. That will boost the payout or the claimed job, but it will also make your food wait on a counter an in a car.
You tried to say that it wasn't DoorDash's fault for paying like shit, but then went on to qualify every other reason with "low paying order" - none of that would matter if DoorDash didn't pay like shit.
Oh, it’s 100% doordash’s fault. I completely agree. The base pay needs to be livable.
My point was that it’s not like a dasher is going to slow walk your burger because you didn’t tip. If they see a low payout, they don’t claim it.
DoorDash likes to guilt trip the customer into tipping, when they really should just pay better.
They know that by having a separate tip line, instead of one larger service fee charge, people get tricked into thinking delivery is more affordable than it is. It’s all a bunch of dark pattern shit that fucks over customers and drivers. We need regulations around this space.
It seems like ticket master with the fees at the end and then have people go well I'm already this far into the cart so I might as well check out, or electronics where the starting price is low then few upgrades and price is more than double the initial eye catching low base price.
It's all pricing tricks except in this one they shift the blame to customers and workers while upper management watches them fight. And tricked people into saying it's somehow impossible to actually charge a product to account for all the overhead because it's a services and acting like every other monetary based activity isn't a service too but doesn't have pricing problems.
We all get that
Hey, I’m the first one in line to shit talk gig economy work. Christ, my ass got canned for being a highly internal visible leader, at large delivery service, who was constantly leading and highlighting internal research that showed big concerns with pay (or lack thereof).
That said, if you want to know why orders without tips come cold, it’s primarily because low dollar amounts are undesirable to claim.
DoorDash wants likes to dupe the customer instead of just charging the real full service price at checkout. $5 isn’t enough money for someone to want to spend 45min in time and gas for your burger.
Seems genuine to me. Why are you being a prick while adding nothing to the discussion?
@[email protected] Ignore this asshole
100%
They were definitely not assuming good intent. I was just trying to provide some dirt that others might not be aware of.
Yea so I’m a driver and the characterization that it’s drivers retaliating against customers is… wrong. When we skip an order it’s because it will literally cost us money to deliver, and it’s DoorDash that we’re saying no to.
The problem isn’t the drivers, it’s DoorDash and their unwillingness to pay us appropriately. They’ve recently reduced the base payout to $2, and there’s no delivery where $2 is enough to cover costs of delivery, let alone make the extra few bucks that we’re doing this shitty job for.
DoorDash is actively disincentivizing drivers from taking orders that customers don’t tip on. Please don’t blame drivers for DoorDash’s shitty business practices.
Then why do it? Aren't regular Uber/Lyft trips more worth it?
Car insurance costs go up quite a lot of you do Uber
Fucking.... LIE god damn. The insurance company isn't gonna find out your doing Uber unless you tell them.
They will easily find out when it shows up in a police report for a fender bender.
The legroom in my backseat (‘13 Ford Focus) is garbage and wildly uncomfortable. I also don’t really like people enough for that and prefer doing delivery, on top of having a bit more control over where I operate by delivering. I live in a small city north of Seattle and can keep my deliveries all within 5 miles and still make $30/hour. I don’t think I could do that doing rideshare.
Do you actually make $30 an hour after you factor in gas, maintenance, milage, etc?
No, def not. I’m talking gross. I set aside half for taxes, car maintenance, gas, etc, and keep about 15/hour.
I wouldn't call it retaliation. If one person offers you $10 and another offers you $15 for the same job, you're going to opt for the one that pays more. That's not the driver "getting one over", it's just basic economics. It's not like Door Dash is going to make up the difference.
In an ideal world they would remove any tip lines and just pay their workers a reasonable wage.
But honestly I can't wait for Zipline deliveries to become a thing.
It shouldn't be set up so the customer has to pay more to get good service. They should be able to add a tip afterward if they choose.
I agree but I installed the "shopper" app which is the driver side for instacart while I was between jobs earlier this year. The way it worked is you get an alert so you open the app if someone placed an order. You then see where the order is, how much you will make and can accept it if you want. If doordash works similarly what it sounds like to me is you open the app, and see $x dollars and where it is at and decide if it is worth it to them. If they decide it isn't, the restaurant is still making that food and waiting on another driver to accept the pickup. So if you open the app and see 3 orders, the ones that pay more and are closest to you is likely what you will choose. So if someone had a McDonald's order and a BK order and one is paying a lot more) they are going to have a much better time. That is all based off the theory that it works like the instacart setup.
Delivery drivers are independent contractors and DoorDash facilitates the meeting of drivers and customers. The fees go towards DoorDash and the driver, and the customer can add an additional payment to the driver to make their order more enticing to accept. There's no "refusing to pay wages" in this situation. If you want to go with the ultra low cost option, it will not be attractive to drivers so you may wait longer.
You can twist the words all you like, but DoorDash is still an employer, and they still pay like shit.
DoorDash is an "employer" as in they have employees, but the drivers are independent contractors. Employees at DoorDash are support staff, coders, etc. DoorDash pay is clearly good enough to attract many independent contractors to deliver for them, and because they are contractors they have all the options.
Them being contractors is legal bullshit. Many of the apps forbid you from running other apps at the same time, they assign orders to you, it's not an open list, and if you deny too many orders most of the apps will stop assigning you orders. They're de facto employees that the companies lie about to not pay taxes and benefits
What makes it "legal bullshit"? They are legally independent contractors, and that's not something that we're just taking their word for. There are legal tests to determine whether or not someone is an employee or an independent contractor, and there have been lawsuits about this topic as well.
Many? I've not heard of this, can you name them? As far as I understand it's quite common for drivers to multi-app.
Orders are offered to drivers who then choose whether or not to accept them.
That's your opinion. As of right now it's not backed up by anything substantial, and it's not looking likely to change. You don't need to accuse companies of serious fraud just because you don't like them.
I'm aware they are legally "contractors". It's bullshit.
There HAVE been lawsuits, yes! And DoorDash lost the class action that alleged they misclassified its workers as independent contractors when they should be classed as employees. They paid 100mil for that, and that's just one case.
But don't just take my word for it. Here's Californias labor laws on the test for determining employee vs contractor;
No, it's simply the quickest way to add an additional income for desperate people needing a second job. No interviews, no resume needed, you don't even need a car.
I quit after I realized it was costing more in gas and car maintenance than I was making. Imagine driving 20 miles for $3. With pick up and drop off, that's at least half an hour. At that rate, you're making $6/hour. It absolutely 100% depends on customer tips to actually pay it's dashers
Yeah, let me know how to get GrubHub to even respond to a support request for an order that never arrived, much less refund me and then you can tell me GrubHub is better. I had an order that was never delivered on Sept 23 and GrubHub has still not responded to or refunded me. At least with Doordash or UberEats I can get issues with my order addressed almost immediately.
Charge it back. If you didn’t get service, no reason they should get money.
Weird, I've gotten refunded by them easily in the past.
I did that. There were no options, just a dialogue saying they had refunded me a couple dollars for a price mismatch. But no button to report an issue on the app or web, no chat, no email or phone number. Just a Contact Us form that I filled out and submitted with all the information nearly a month ago, and no one from GrubHub has reached out. I finally just did a chargeback a couple days ago.
Huh, good to know, thanks. I don’t use those services often now that Covid is going away, but if I need to again it’s good to know that one isn’t as quite as shitty.
Yeah this is why I only use GrubHub now. I still tip well cause I appreciate people who bring me food and I can afford it.
Huh, who knew they had their legal reps on the fediverse.
Geez, I hope they're paying you to suck their dick this hard