this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2024
163 points (97.1% liked)
Asklemmy
43757 readers
1075 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy ๐
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Can't believe it's not mentioned yet, but Alan Moore's Watchmen
I cant see Ozymandias as a good guy. At all. None of the "heroes" are, but Oz was the worst of them.
I should re-read it, but the impression I got was that Oz was the epitome of this thread's topic. A real "ends justify the means" villain, where his end goal is to save the world from itself by giving it a common enemy to vanquish. And he does it. In terms of the classical trolley problem, he pulled the lever to kill 1 instead of doing nothing and allowing 5 to die. Am I misremembering?
That's roughly right, but that doesn't make him in any meaningful way "good". Of course I also don't think anyone who decided to drop the bombs on Japan was a "good guy". But maybe that's why I'm not a pure utilitarian.
From what I understood, he spent the whole story acting super-sure about what would happen if he did nothing, and how he alone could fix it. But in the end of the comic, this showed he had doubts. Veidt didnt have precognition, just very good prediction. But also an over-inflated ego. He killed a lot of people for a "maybe".
Man, such great writing. Yeah, definitely going to have to reread it.
In the movie the only one I would've considered good was Rorschach. He was the only one who only made personal sacrifices to save people.
I mean dude legit let himself be killed because he couldn't live with not telling the world what Ozymandius actually did.
Rorschach being good is debatable, he's a Batman like vigilante who hasn't the 'no killing' rule, which is dubious.
But the reason he chose death was (in my humble opinion) that he realized Veidt had found the solution, that would bring peace and create a world he would be useless in.
This point is made by the ultra nationalist frontiersman publication he sent his diary to. They complain that they have nothing to write about as the world was united in boring peace, this is when the burger munching intern gets the assignment to pull something out of the loonie pile.
Veidt would never consider himself the good guy for what he did, but I think that's what makes the writing so excellent.
Nah ozymandies was kind of an ass regardless . Did he solve a big problem ? Yes . Was he a good guy ? Far from it.
And as dr manhatten warned him, nothing would change in the end.
I bought the book just this weekend. Until now I only watched the movie. Looking forward to reading it!
There's some key differences, so keep an open mind!
If you never say the HBO series, I would watch that after reading the book.
holy shit, you in for a treat
there's atleast an hour's worth more of a movie in the comic
also, the motion comic's pretty freakin' dope