this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2024
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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (5 children)

They get a 30% cut and make enough money that Gaben is a billionaire so yeah, games prices could be much cheaper.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago (32 children)

I mean literally everything could be cheaper. Welcome to a capitalist society.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (16 children)

As evidenced by games costing less on stores where the cut is lower!

Oh... wait...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That is addressed by the lawyer:

According to Shotbolt, the developer and digital distribution company is "shutting out" all competition in the PC gaming market as it "forces" game publishers to sign off on price parity obligations - supposedly preventing them from going on to offer lower prices on other platforms.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

But I thought those are only for steam keys? That's always been what devs found out when trying to vary their prices on storefronts: Sell the game standalone, Valve sleeps. Sell a steam key or use the steam backend, real shit.

Epic is good at making it sound like it applies to sales in general though, while technically not being wrong from how they word it: You do sign a price parity obligation, yes. And it does prevent you from offering lower prices on other stores. For, well, steam keys. But they're not mentioning that last part as that makes it sound like Epic just sells stuff for the same end-user price because they can.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I've seen some comments agreeing with you and others citing examples of individual developers being told not to sell at lower prices. Don't know if the prosecutor is citing those cases or they're just a chancer who hasn't done their research properly.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

They're also the prosecutor, they can word it like that if they so desire. It's on the opposing attorney to correct them.

And possibly demand sanctions if they can convince the bar that it was willful omission of details.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (9 children)

They absolutely could. If only there was any serious competition and not just some quick cash grabbers like EA and others. As long as Steam is providing most value to users (=players) without even restricting competition like other tech companies do in other areas (cough Apple), they are able to take the 30% cut without a complaint.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

The only reason EA and others aren't serious competition is because of their lack of effort.

Every time the topic comes up, PC gamers don't bother with their services because they're shoddily written and slow. The complaint of "They don't have millions of games on there to amass in one library" is a minority one.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Exactly. Why should they succeed if they don't even try to win the competition?

Streaming platforms for TV series and movies went into the direction of every large movie company running their own streaming platform and only limiting their own content to their own platform which lead into a bad customer experience when you just wanted to see the latest Disney or HBO or whatever thing. I think it's a good thing EA and others didn't succeed doing the same in gaming industry and only limiting their games to their own stores even though they did try really hard. That's not even competition, it's just being greedy.

A true competitor to Steam would try to sell and serve games of their own and also made by others. I guess Epic tries to do that in a sense but they also lack the actual effort of making a good product and instead tries to win some market share by just throwing lots of money at it. I know it's hard to build an actually good software product (because I work in the industry) but I also know it's not impossible. Somehow the companies that have the means to compete just aren't able to get their shit together and for some reason that's the reason why we shouldn't like Valve either?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I mean, if Epic actually did what shills like @[email protected] promote - that is, reflect lower cuts in a cheaper price to consumers, then we would all be flabbergasted how big their market percentage is.

But they're not doing that, that's the thing. Because Tim Sweeney does not want storefronts to take a smaller cut. Quite the opposite. His problem is that the cut is only 30%, and worse, does not go into his pockets!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

But there is always an excuse. Epic tried that. Companies complained.

Their sales used to give you a reusable $10 off coupon. That didn't change the amount the companies got when someone bought their game. It only changed how much they paid. When one of the Witcher games had that coupon applied to it, the developer got pissed off and changed the price of the game so that it was a cent or two below the threshold to activate the coupon, and then fans of the dev were excusing it claiming that they couldn't let the price be lower because it would 'devalue' the game.

if I game was $30 on Steam and $25 on Epic (as a regular price), or some other service, you'd undoubtedly hear the same rhetoric.

Epic's cut is 12% not 30%. They also waive the 5% royalty fee over $1 million for sales on the Epic Store if you use Unreal. Epic doesn't control the prices. Devs set the prices. They leave the price the same on Epic so that they can actually get a little more for each sale.

What the should do on a $60 game though is to set the price at like $56 on Epic, it would encourage people to save a couple bucks there, while still getting them more than steam after the cuts.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

In a world where Sony and Embracer are running around saying we need to be paying $70+ for games (while tipping the devs and buying micro transactions like a good like wallet)... You're mad at the storefront?

Yeah, go into Walmart and demand they take less of a cut so... The publisher can take more from the devs?

Gabe is rich because he spearheaded a good service (which I'll admit I thought was a scam back when I was forced to make an account way back when I had dial up) but... 30% is standard. For the price of games? Be mad at Embracer. Be mad at EA. You're free to not like or use Steam but they let the publishers set the price. Their cut is a drop in the bucket. The whole 'cut' debate is just EGS propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

...(which I'll admit I thought was a scam back when I was forced to make an account way back when I had dial up)...

Oh man, I cursed Valve and Steam back then. It effectively made LAN parties of the time impossible since you could no longer share media and needed Internet access to play. Back then, only business had the "fast" Internets while everyone else had 56k baud modems. Hard to do much when your max download speed for the entire connection was 5kb/s.

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Epic with a lower cut has the same game prices. Additionally Valve lowered their cut ahead of a launch of Epic Games Store

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

https://www.geekwire.com/2018/valves-new-steam-revenue-sharing-tiers-spur-controversy-among-indie-game-developers/

By default, as per the old rules, Steam takes 30 percent off the top of any revenue that a given title generates on the storefront. In the new system, once a game earns $10 million in sales, Steam will adjust its share to 25 percent. If a game proceeds to hit the $50 million mark, Steam’s share further declines to 20 percent. The total revenue includes any and all income sources for a given game, such as package deals, add-on packs, in-game transactions, and fees applied to trading on the Steam Community Marketplace.

According to Steam’s post on the subject, “Our hope is this change will reward the positive network effects generated by developers of big games, further aligning their interests with Steam and the community.”

In other words, this is meant to encourage big developers not to take their games elsewhere by rewarding them with a bigger slice of the income. $10 million may sound high, but at a $60 price point, that’s around 167,000 sales. As a glance at SteamSpy can tell you, that’s nothing special for a mainstream PC game. Conversely, even a successful indie game may not reach $10 million in revenue over the course of its entire operational lifetime. In practice, the terms of the new revenue system appear to mean that a big “triple-A” mainstream title is being rewarded with a more favorable income split by Steam simply for showing up on the market at all.

BuT vAlVe DoEsN't UsE aNtI cOmPeTiTiVe TaCtIcS!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

This is just a description of a standard business model. Most percentage-based revenue or sales systems have lower prices for higher quantities.

It's called the "bulk discount" for a reason.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

They lowered the cut for people who didn't need it. Massive publishers selling tons of games. Arguably indie games that only sell a few copies need a larger cut than EA on their latest blockbuster.

There isn't much in the way of scale here. Their bandwidth isn't monitored on a per game basis, and if that was a factor in the cost they'd be basing the cut on the size of your game. Same 1 gb indie game pays the same cut or larger than a 100gb mammoth from EA. Valve is also way more strict with that indie game in getting itself published than they are with the EA game as well.