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Roger Stone Caught on Tape Discussing Trump’s Plan to Challenge 2024 Election
(www.thedailybeast.com)
this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2024
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Why aren't these guys in jail? Seriously. I mean, I know the theory of the rule of law and all, but even our widely-acclaimed greatest president suspended habeas corpus when insurgent seditionists tried to overthrow the Union.
I suspect that this is extremely dry humor, but for others that read this, Trump pardoned both Bannon and Stone
it's still unfathomable that trump was "allowed" (I know it was "legal", don't point that out) to pardon his literal partners-in-crime. He basically has already self-pardoned himself by proxy by allowing these traitors to walk free.
Ford pardoned Nixon.
Bush Jr pardoned Scooter Libby.
Governor Abbott pardoned a pedophile for shooting a black girl's white boyfriend
Why is this even remotely surprising?
the difference being that ford wasn't involved in Nixon's taping. etc. etc.
this is direct involvement, which makes it stink more.
We messed up when we allowed Ford's pardon of Nixon before he was convicted. We should only allow pardons after the person was convicted. That created all kinds of paradoxes:
The only restrictions on presidential pardons are on convicted impeachment and the requirement that it must be a federal crime. Yes, Trump can even pardon himself from the federal documents, insurrection, and election fraud cases if he takes office again.
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S2-C1-3-1/ALDE_00013316/
We should never have allowed a pardon before a conviction. What Ford did for Nixon created all kinds of paradoxes.
Carter did it with draft dodgers too, but I agree.
Well that balances the damage lol
I'm not sure if I'm joking. In any case, the writ of habeas corpus is the legal tool that a court can theoretically use to compel the appearance of a prisoner before it. It is the legal doctrine that underlies the right to trial, and I say "theoretically" because courts rarely need to issue one; it's just standard procedure to bring people to court to face charges.
By suspending it, Abraham Lincoln could detain those people he deemed dangerous seditionists indefinitely, because the detainees would have to go to court to challenge their detention, and there was no way to get to court. The effect of suspending it again is that it wouldn't matter that Baboon (autocorrect and I'm leaving it) and Stone were pardoned, or that there were even criminal charges.
Lincoln did it, George W. Bush did it. Barack Obama did it. The Constitution contains a clause which allows it to be suspended due to rebellion or threats to public safety. It's a dangerous thing to allow a president to do, but the MAGA danger might be greater.
Worth noting that, historically speaking, if a state official wanted to punish someone without going through the court system he could always just turn the prisoner over to a lynch mob.
So while suspending habeaus corpus is a danger to democracy, it is not a singular method by which mayors, governors, or Presidents have disposed of political opponents.
In other words the US is neither a state of law nor is it a democracy as separation of power can be overturned whenever the president feels like it.
Emergency powers are in most constitutions because people generally understand that during war things have to operate a little differently. You can't allow the enemy, who is attacking you physically, to go and publish propaganda that attacks you rhetorically and turns the populace's loyalty towards the other side. The problem we have now is the constant use of emergency powers. That needs to be shut down. Emergency powers should be limited to a certain timeframe, and reviewed by congress after that. Not these multi decade states of emergency.
I have to say, "you've been unpardoned" would be a great line.
Throughout human history, laws have never stopped conservatism. Jails have never stopped conservatism. Pacifism has never stopped conservatism. Only force has ever stopped conservatism. Only force.
Careful or you'll get called a tankie
People get called that when they're pretending to be far left while urging everyone to take the exact actions the Repubs want them to take.
Is this code for "people who aren't voting for Joe Biden"?
that would be people who are essentially voting for trump, so yeah, why not.
Tankie is the pro-authoritarian left. The Stalinists essentially. The ones who think it's appropriate to send in the tanks to quell a socialist or communist uprising because it has a tint of democracy in it, which may cause their strong leader to lose dictatorial power.
It depends on whether you consider PRC and Stalin "left." There are plenty of their supporters out on the internet.
It's code for "antifascist" "leftists" who are urging people to do the exact same things that the Republican party wants them to do.
Specifically, which things?
If you're upset about being called a tankie, you could cross-reference what you are urging people to do with what the Republican party wants people to do. And then stop that.
In general I would recommend being antifascist in a way that isn't the exact same actions as overt fascism with the only difference being the rhetoric justifying the actions.
What am I urging people to do?
Fuck if I know. You're whining about being called a tankie. I can explain why that happens in general. You'll have to figure the rest out on your own. Maybe if you do some reading and educate yourself you can get there.
Tankies are literal authoritarians. People say they're "authoritarian communists," which ignores they're mostly Maoists or Stalinists, both of whom were closer to fascism than the left. It sort of ignores the basic premise of communism or even socialism to have a single authoritarian ruler. Kind of like how the Nazis called themselves socialists. I guess they were a workers' party to start, but I don't think you can reasonably conflate their ideology with the tenets of socialism.
The Nazis only used the label socialists to deceive the working class. They said so plenty of times when meeting with the industrialists whose bidding they were doing. They never were a workers party and they knew that it was only in name to be more palatable. This deception now has been replaced with "owning the libs" and whatever the local version of neoliberal, conservative or fascist ideology you have around the world.
No, you don't understand. The problem is that those people haven't had enough time to bring upon real communism. Real communism hasn't been reached yet. They want to let the Maos and Stalins of the world have enough time to reach communism. Things will surely be different with the next guy.
Trump is just Stalin and mai with less power.
There is no difference between authoritarianism at either end of the spectrum.
The issue with authoritarianism isn't "communism or fascism" it's a symptom of shitty PEOPLE NOT TYPE OF GOVERNMENT.
STalin wasn't a shithead BECAUSE he was commumist, but in spite of it.
What’s Stalinism 🤔
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalinism
I was being pedantic. There is no such thing as Stalinism, that article is a joke. Stalin was just a Marxist Leninist.
That's certainly a take
Tankies these days are conservatives wrapped in an authoritarian shell. Instead of just being supportive of their own authoritarian government they try to destabilize other governments for their gain.
That's not what being a tankie is lol
Because Trump pardoned him.
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/23/949820820/trump-pardons-roger-stone-paul-manafort-and-charles-kushner
As in my other reply, the Constitution allows the suspension of habeas corpus in cases of rebellion or threats to public safety, and without that writ, charges and sentences are irrelevant.
The Supreme Court has held that the Constitution contains a right to habeas corpus in Boumedine v. Bush. The Lincoln thing was never fully litigated and was probably unconstitutional.
The Constitution doesn't empower the court to interpret the constitution. If the executive chose to ignore the court it would be perfectly legal.
Well that's an even older decision:
Yes, the supreme Court gave itself that power. To that end the other branches could justifiably choose to not find that to be valid.
Roger Stone's been to jail a number of times. He really doesn't care because he knows he'll get pardoned. Also he's basically a mafia don, so I imagine he gets a lot of respect in prison from republicans.
In what capacity does he resemble the mafia? He’s a snake. These guys want to desperately be associated with the mafia but they’re just con men. The Mafia were intelligent criminals.
Everyone needs to remember this guy shaking hands with world leaders during his years in office. In every single picture he is smiling like a pig in shit. It is only after the indictment photo he is attempting to rebrand himself as some sort of tough guy criminal instead of a slimy, smug con artist.
He was going to face a trial and likely prison, but trump pardoned him and the rest.
Huh? Why would anyone with power go to jail in an oligarchy? Unless you upset the more powerful oligarch.