this post was submitted on 08 Jun 2024
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Television

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[–] [email protected] 134 points 5 months ago (6 children)

They'll fall into the trap of never creating a proper ending aren't they?

[–] [email protected] 47 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm imagining a series finally like a weird mixture of Clue and Fallout 4 where the last episode has four possible endings and three are basically the same and they're all shown.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

Stop, I can only get so erect!

[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago

The horse will be pâté.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (1 children)

A big theme I'm hoping to see in season 2 is to see what their take on New Vegas' ending would be in the show.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Todd Howard already said that they aim to be as ambiguous as possible and not canonize any of player's choices. It will probably be "yeah there was a big trouble here a couple of decades back but it's all ancient history now so who cares". And the town's leader will be some schmuck who hasn't even heard of Mr. House.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

That seems the pattern, especially with comedies. I get the sense Netflix (any streaming platform really but especially newcomers Netflix and Amazon) seem to be quick to cancel a streaming show for any or no reason.

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[–] [email protected] 71 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (23 children)

Notes to writers and producers.

IF👏 YOU👏 MAKE👏 AN👏 ADAPTATION👏 THAT👏 IS👏 FAITHFUL👏 TO👏 THE👏 ORIGINAL,👏 YOU👏 WILL👏 MAKE👏 LOTS👏 OF👏 MONEY.👏

Witcher died when they started changing things

Rings of Power died when they started changing things

Game of Thrones died when they ran out of source material

Halo died when they started changing things

It has nothing to do with race, or gender, or whatever bullshit you hide behind for your ego trips. Take your ego out of the equation. Stop thinking "I can improve on this". No, you can't. People love this. Just write this. Stop thinking "oh, this would be so much better if I added--" NOPE. Stop. Even if you're extending the canon, consult the original authors. And if the original authors say "this doesn't really match the tone", then FUCKING REWRITE IT UNTIL IT MATCHES THE TONE.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago

Fuckin’ A.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (8 children)

First of all, I agree with everything you said.

PS: spoiler warning for Thee Body Problem, so just skip that paragraph.

However, I think that deviating from the source, or adding stuff, etc, wouldn't be so destructive, if the writing was actually good.

Three Body Problem adapted by D&D, still felt a bit meh, because they made a bunch of changes that were just terrible writing. They didn't understand the source material, so they made the VR stuff alien tech. They made the stars blink, not the cosmic background radiation. The dimension folding fuck up leading to a giant eye over... Earth?... Why did they think that made any sense? It happened on Trisolaris, and it was such a goosebump inducing thing... Did D&D just think it might look cool, and... Since you cannot easily show it without showing the aliens... They kinda went "let's just do it on earth", even though it made no fucking sense whatsoever, because, they wouldn't have any reason to play a fucking prank on earth. Shits and giggles weren't their thing... Gah.

The Witcher suffered because the writing was actually quite bad at times.

Game of Thrones... I mean... I don't know why Dumb and Dumber get their hands on any work whatsoever. They have shown they know nothing of the world and systems they write for, nor characters or development. It's just embarrassing.

Halo, I haven't watched. And Fallout, I just know that Nolan and Joy are absolutely amazing writers. The only concern I had was to what extent people like Tod could fuck things up.

I think what I'm trying to add is that: Good writers can tell very engaging adaptations within the existing constraints of lore, world and rules, but it doesn't need to be existing canon. You can always tell new stories, as long as it sticks to the established rules and world building people expect. Bad writers fail at that, and often need to add contemporary trends where it doesn't belong. The fundamental issue might just be a skill issue.

Good writing is hard. It requires a lot of effort. You need to be congruent with the world and rules you've built so far. Not everyone will notice everything that deviates. Noticing bad writing is catching a lie given the presented imagined premise. Some suspension of belief is of course necessary, or risk being an annoying pedant. But, don't pretend someone is a level headed strategist, who then sends half their army out of a defensive fortification... to fight an enemy who is known to make dead soldiers fight for them. So which is it, do the people in charge know what castles are for, or did they suddenly become dumb as bread to suit some contrived narrative, or perhaps lack thereof?.. Gah..

J. J. Abrams didn't deviate all that much from lore. But my God what a grade A moron he is when it comes to plots points. Thousands of extremely talented master craftsmen, all coming together to tell a story... that only works if you don't think about it at all. And you might wonder which franchise in particular I'm referring to, as both apply.

The Expanse TV adaptation is a master class in doing everything right. TV is a different medium, and you cannot tell the story in the same exact way. But the changes they did, still told the same story, and most changes just suited visual medium better. They even had to off a character because of real life reasons, which was a little bit abrupt, but even so, they managed to adapt to that just fine.

Wheel of Time... weird additions and focus on romantic relationships that detracted from the magnitude and seriousness of the story itself. Maybe I was just a bit too young when I read the books, but I certainly didn't remember it like that, and it made the characters feel weird, and... immature. Also, somewhat intellectually insulting. Personal sacrifice, and love (? I'm looking for a better word...) for someone, doesn't require romantic interest.

I'm rambling.

TL;DR: Good writing good. Bad writing bad. Bad writing != not 100% aligned with source material. Contemporary tropes for no good reason = bad writing. JJ, please stick to directing. D&D... Maybe take up painting? Pretty please?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (5 children)

I was to about to say the same in less eloquent way. It is worth noting thought that The Expanse had both writers of the books heavily involved in the adaptation. You could also see that they drew from Game of Thrones did things, especially with consolidating characters.

I also wouldn't be so fast to judge some series that are far from being over like Rings of Power and Wheel of Time. First one is meh but not offensive. WoT needed heavy cuts to the story because of how long it is but it's still very watchable.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago

Instructions unclear, people are getting tired of video game adaptations.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Witcher lead left. Still getting 2 more seasons.

Rings of power is about to have a second season.

Got started to suck because D and D rushed 2 seasons to try to work for Disney, which was pulled.

Fallout is popular because it's good. All of the above changed a ton from the source. Only niche fanboys care how accurate something is and they don't move the needle on popularity.

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I don't think you get a $153m budget without expecting it to be popular.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

A big budget doesn't guarantee success though. See LOTR series.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 5 months ago (1 children)

of course, but that's not the point. the point was making a popular show was absolutely their goal, not sure why they feel the need to posture about being "surprised".

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago

They may have been expecting it to be popular, but less so than it actually was.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

By most metrics the Lord of the Rings show was very successful. Now none of those metrics mean much to you or me, but they do by the people who sign the checks I think.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 5 months ago (3 children)

I just hope it doesn't overstay it's welcome like just about every show these days.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Amazon will cut the budget every consecutive season.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (4 children)
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[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

Planning 4 additional seasons worries me. That's a lot of story and actors to plan.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (11 children)

As a huge Fallout fan since the aughts, I was pleasantly surprised. The show is faithful to it source material and nails tone the games are known for. Some cameos helped the with dark humor. Story was interesting too, especially the b plot about the vaults.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

Nobody uses aughts the way they ought to anymore.

Edit: Apparently I have not used Ought to the way I should have. TIL

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago
[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I wonder how many creators are taking less money to get better support at outlets other than cancel-happy HBO and Netflix? Five seasons is a great deal if it works out for them.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 5 months ago (5 children)

I can't be bothered to watch any series on netflix that are not finished with a proper ending for this exact reason. Fuck them for not giving shows actual endings and just cancelling them.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago

Same! Netflix has trained me not to even watch new shows until the show has a proper finale. Fuck em for making so many throw away shows just to pump thier numbers.

Same goes for Google, it doesn't matter what miraculous app/hardware they dream up with, cause those fucks are no better when it comes to abandoning thier work. It's all pump and dump after the quartler numbers are out.

Enshittification is getting out of control.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

If they could commit to just five seasons it could be a really good show, but if they plan to try to keep it going and milk it, it'll be complete garbage by season 3

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It really depends. If they go more of an anthology route it will be easier to not tank it. (Not saying they wouldn't still manage to.)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Anthology is better for longevity, but I could see a lot of people being turned off by introducing all new characters every season.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Watched the first season before Amazon added ads to their streaming. It was pretty decent. Not decent enough to watch ads or pay more.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (7 children)

Make 5 seasons then end it. Nothing worse than shows that go on too long then start to become shit.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

They started with an already well detailed, quite deep, world (including already having various stories), which already had quite a number of fans (thanks to it being in a series of Role Playing Games - which is pretty much the kind of games closest to a TV Series or Movie), didn't fuck it up by writting a bad script, didn't fuck it up by getting bad actors and didn't fuck it up by being cheap on FX.

It's not exactly surprising that it was a success..

It's maybe a little optimist at this point to expect at least 5 seasons - mainly because that's plenty of time to fuck it up, especially around the point when the initial story either wraps up or gets boring, which is were plenty of great TV Series turn to shit - but yeah, so far so good.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago

I wish for the Horizon (Zero Dawn) series to have that kind of luck with good story/writing, acting, and FX... then I always remember that it's Netflix making it and get disappointed every time.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I though the writing was so bad. Only the franchise carried it over being forgettable. I mean the black main character is so badly written, most of what he does doesn't make sense if you look further then some very flat character development. I hope they can improve and remove some of the cringe elements. I love Fallout, but it has a diffent humor, the show didn't manage to replicate much.

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