Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
[Matrix/Element]Dead
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
Many in the crypto and privacy community mistakenly trust Telegram because it's "end to end encrypted", but there are huge issues including not hiding the metadata, censorship, centralization, and phone numbers.
Send this video to your friend that asks why you won't join:
https://video.simplifiedprivacy.com/why-telegram-sucks/
nobody "trusts" telegram. but at least it s not whatsapp.
You shouldn’t trust anything.
I trust myself sometimes, its occasionally useful.
Can't trust nobody and nothing.
Can we stop doing videos as news and opinion please? They're an inefficient, annoying, and intrusive way to communicate this kind of information. If it doesn't need to be visual, it is in video format only for monetization reasons, which I'd think would be more concerning to this community.
A cringe video made by someone selling a Blockchain messaging solution.
Wow, not to pick on the narrator, but this comes off like the worst small town used car dealership TV advertisement I've ever seen.
Here's a real rundown I've put together over the years:
Pavel Durov's argument is that there should be a high functioning UI/UX experience for "non-secure" communication, and when you need it there's something much closer to Signal's very secure client-to-client encryption.
Arguably Telegram secret chats are even "close enough" to cloud chats an adversary might not notice you're doing the "super secret things" (making it harder to identify what to target).
MTProto Cloud: https://core.telegram.org/file/811140746/2/CzMyJPVnPo8.81605/c2310d6ede1a5e220f
MTProto Secret (Wrapped in MTProto Cloud): https://core.telegram.org/file/811140633/4/hHw6Zy2DPyQ.109500/cabc10049a7190694f
They also provide verified builds even on iOS (though it's a bit of a hack, not "really" quite the same thing).
The only things that can really be said about Telegram's secret chat crypto are that:
Ultimately though, it's been just shy of 10 years since Telegram entered the scene, and nobody has actually broken Telegram crypto in any meaningful way -- AFAIK, to this day. Still, there are hypothetical holes in the crypto when scrutinized vs something like signal. So, is it as good as Signal or Threema? Eh, probably not, is it good enough for the average person that isn't target by a nation state? I'd say probably.
Isn't metadata leakage a problem that this messenger shares with nearly every other (popular) messenger out there?
In case you actually want some useful info on that topic: https://www.messenger-matrix.de/
Nice comparison site! I've always referenced the below site. But I'm glad to have another thank you
That's a cool website!
Thats why Element(Matrix) is the way. Ideally selfhosted+federated, but even the default matrix.org is much better than most other chat apps.
Why Matrix and not XMPP? XMPP is also flawed, but much less bloated, easier to selfhost and doesn't have so many people being on central instance like matrix.org (there are other arguments as well).
Because there's not a single good app for XMPP and nobody uses it.
Their bleeding edge app is Conversations which costs money (already unviable), and the app looks like it's designed in 2012.
It does NOT cost money on F-Droid. You don't even need to install the market itself, you can get the app from F-Droid's website (though then you'd have to check for updates yourself). For me, it was a chance to get mom to F-droid.
It may be once sliding sync and proper key handling of room history for new members get implemented.
Right now sync is very slow, the apps are heavy weight too (as I know at least partly because of how sync works today), and if a new member joins an encrypted room, they will not see the history even if you set it that way, because the clients that know the keys won't send to theirs.
The only reason telegram was unbanned in Russia is because they started collecting and handing over identifiable data about Russian users.
The only thing Telegram has going for itself is that it's Non-Meta and Non-Western.
Anyone who has a closer look at Telegram's reputation knows that their privacy claims are dubious. If you want end to end encryption, even WhatsApp is better. But these things depend on your individual threat model.
If you want end to end encryption
You use Signal.
Yeah, end to end encryption in a closed source app can't be proven outside of the company and the company can't be held accountable by the public even if it gets a third party audit at some point because it can always just change the source.
Open source, client side, end to end encryption is the only serious standard.
Telegram can be E2E, no reason to switch to Meta's app for it
I try to explain that to people all the time, they only use E2E for so called secret chats and comply with every country as soon as a ban is on the table, there are even reports about a case in Dheli where they did so for Audiobook piracy!
Who thinks in the privacy community that Telegram is end to end encrypted? They were largely mislead. That's an option, that even prevents sync of the chat between your devices.
The thing is, Telegram has some shady things, but until Matrix becomes usable this is one of the very few usable options. And until then, use Telegram FOSS from F-droid.
How is matrix not usable?
Fortunately they are working on all of these, and as I just found out recently, they also have an alpha version app now that makes use of the new efficient sync, which I expect to fix 2 of the above (the resource usage is partly because of how sync works now)
Why isn't this video uploaded to peertube instead of some dude's personal bog?
Because its just that. All it is a personal blog. It is not a valid source
I like mixing it up, even mid conversation, between Threema, Signal and Session. Put the puzzle together feds xD
Indeed it is. Use Threema 😉