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In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
Cool, he vetoed one thing that I agree should have been vetoed.
People are not getting into speeding accidents because they don't know they are speeding. This would solve nothing, but would be a distraction any time it triggers off an incorrectly indexed speed limit.
Yup. My understanding is that the roads have a much higher effect on driving. Design roads for slow traffic and you will get slow traffic.
Milton Keynes, in the UK, seems to have nailed this. It's effectively a grid of roundabouts. When the roads are empty, you can race along at 60mph (legally). As soon as it starts to build, the road naturally slows to 40, then 30mph. No cameras etc needed.
It also has the red ways. You can walk most places, without having to cross a major road. It uses underpasses for pedestrians and bikes etc.
That last part is where you lost us. Unless we can legally murder someone with our SUV and call it an accident, we Americans won’t have it because it’s for commies.
Every speed limit on Google maps is wrong in my area so yeah this bill is a horrible idea
My Volvo displays speed limits and I can have it beep if I go over, done by camera if I'm not mistaken, very rarely wrong.
I had a car that did that as well, but it's highly reliant on well maintained signs, so it was wrong probably 30% of the time for me
One road I drive on frequently is posted 25, but Google Maps thinks it's 55, which is a silly speed for that road with many turnouts. Meanwhile, the next road over, is also 25 and Google sees that one correctly, but going 55 on that road is nearly natural, with nothing but the road and usually green traffic lights every quarter mile.
While Google Maps may be incorrect, government data should be nearly perfect.
Also, you know you can suggest fixes in Google Maps, right?
I wish I could share your faith in my local government
I can suggest fixes, but realistically I'm never going to remember by the time I get home. Skill issue on my part, but such is life.
How do I do this from the app? I've had trouble finding it before.
On Android, long-press -> Report a Problem
Cars in the Middle East had these like 20-30 years ago (source:me. I was there) and it was basically a constant buzzer that started when you went faster than like 88kph. It did absolutely nothing to deter speeding. Drivers just ignored it. What they did do was leave charred vehicle wreckage on the side of the roads and highways as reminders for people to slow down. That was pretty wild to see.
Can't happen in the United States.
Too many dumb motherfuckers would slow down on the highway to 30 mph to rubberneck while driving and fuck up the traffic pattern for everyone behind them
I'm going to guess the Middle East has fewer roads per capita and they are less complicated in their speed limits than the US which are all over the place even within the same state.
Your point about ignoring them is what I expected.
The non-stop chimes and beeps and spoken alerts in cars in South Korea is absolutely maddening. With these constant distractions, there's absolutely no way this makes driving safer.
Imagine passing a speed limit sign that warns of an upcoming speed bump. It will immediately start loud beeping because you're now speeding as you roll out, while simultaneously speaking out loud what the new speed limit is, while simultaneously also saying there's a speed bump, all while your music and navigation play as well.
Thank goodness this was vetoed.
My sons 2015 Nissan Juke has this and it's so annoying.
edit: I have no idea why that response went to you. It's not the first time it happened either
I assume the idea is to be like the seatbelt beeps: they prevent the unwanted behavior by being too annoying to ignore for more than a few seconds.
Wouldn't bother someone who's deaf and blind. They'd just continue driving the wrong way down the highway, blissfully unaware.
“You’re going the wrong way!”
“He says we’re going the wrong way... Oh, he’s drunk. How would he know where we’re going?”
I would legit rip out anything that did this. I wouldn't care how integrated it was into the car.
You are a bad driver and are probably too reckless to have a drivers license.
In Sweden, if you go 15 mph over the speed limit, you immediately lose your license on the first offense. No one deserves to die because you decided to play Nascar.
You understand how speed limits are set in the US, right? they're designed so that 85% of drivers will instinctively not speed on them. If you're speeding, that makes you worse than 85% of drivers out there.
The US is the only western country with rising traffic fatalities for a reason.
Yep, totally aware how they are set.
Thats a big jump to say because I hate the idea of things beeping at me that I'm a bad driver or that I speed. I typically don't speed, I just really hate the idea of anything monitoring what I am doing and nagging me.
I want fewer distractions when I'm driving, and having something beep at me for whatever reason is distracting. Collision avoidance does it quite frequently when I'm coming up to a bend in the road and cars are parked on the curb. The car doesn't realize that the road curves and that I will too. I've even had it hit the brakes for me when coming up to a trailer pulled off at a turn out so we could pass on the turn.
My girlfriends car uses a camera to put the speed limit on the screen in the gauge cluster and it frequently misreads the signs and I don't want to hear a car nag me when it's wrong. My aunt's car beeps frequently when going through an intersection to say it can't detect lane lines and it can no longer warn me if I drift out of lanes. The driver assist will push me towards the center of the lane even when I intentionally am hugging the shoulder to give construction or emergency workers more space.
When something beeps at me. I have to look down at the silly gauge cluster to try and see why it's beeping, taking my eyes off the road and more importantly my mind away from the task of driving to decipher what the car misinterpreted.
There are too many things the car is trying to notify us of that the car itself is becoming a distraction.
I've had this exact experience in a few rentals I've driven. The car can't actually see or have judgement of what's going on. A random beep and pop up message that I have to read while going down the highway is as distracting as a text message. If I move the wheel, it's because I want to go somewhere, and if the car decides to fight me I end up overcompensating. Just let ME drive the car. I'm the one with the license.
Some improvements have been overall great, but more and more I'm seeing those that are unnecessary and down right dangerous.
As my girlfriend will attest when it happens, I will yell at the car "I know more than you!"
Maybe they help sometimes, but they have too many false positives.
Ah, that's a fair nuance. Most of the discussion here is either pro- or anti-speed limiters.
I agree, modern cars suck and often do things that surprise drivers which can hurt safety. Stuff like ABS, TCS, automatic braking, and rear view cameras have helped road safety significantly, but some features might not be as useful as just having 90's era direct control.
This is absolutely not how they are designed. Maybe in theory, but in practice I'd say its way more than 15% of traffic speeding.
Traditionally it is how they're determined, but it's possible that this percentile goes up as roads get widened and the speed limit is never changed, or if the speed limit is lowered when there are concerns with fatalities.
Folks drive at what they feel is a safe speed for themselves. The posted speed limit doesn't really seem to impact much, when the road is wide, the lanes are big, and there aren't many turns or traffic calming elements, people will go fast because others are going fast.
That's been my lived experience, and generally is supported by research that its road design more than anything that dictates speed.
That's also definitely true. My point was that road designers typically design the speed limit after the road, not the road after the speed limit. This is why residential neighborhoods and commercial districts often have 45 mph speed limits.
I wish tesla's and bmw's came with lane assist so that its harder to change lanes without a turn signal. also all cars should come with lights always on, so many cars in the early morning or dusk driving around with their lights off its hard to notice them
In Europe running lights are standard.
Teslas absolutely come with lane assist. Annoyingly so in some cases to be honest, it freaks out about a little double dip around my house probably 50% of the time. There's not even a turn, just a couple vertical bumps in a row.
Also, most modern vehicles I see have always on daytime running lights you have to specifically turn off.
hmm I see a ton of teslas merging without signals so I dont know if they fight the lane assist or disable it maybe. and usually day time running lights dont light up the rear lights, it would be great if they did both
I feel like a system that noticeably increases the resistance of the gas pedal right around the current speed limit might be a good idea. It would make speeding require more intention on the part of the driver.
Tell me you don't drive without telling me you don't drive.
Sounds like NHTSA recommended the veto so we don’t end up with competing standards.
Good move, IMO. For a system as large as this, with severe safety implications, you really don’t want to start on the wrong foot.
you really don’t want to start on the wrong foot.
We all be walkin' here. GET OUT (I kid)
It’s a car’s world, we’re just walkin in it.
The article doesn't say that the NHTSA asked Newsom to veto, just that they were working on a similar regulation.
It sounded like the car companies just wanted him to veto it so they could keep reckless drivers as a customer base.
The proposed regulation only kicks in at 10 mph over the speed limit (ie reckless driving and deadly to pedestrians)
It's weird to see 10mph considered reckless driving.
In California, 10mph over is the slow lane.
If you hit a pedestrian going 35 on a 25 mph neighborhood street, the majority of the time, that pedestrian will die. Probably closer to like 70% if you're driving a truck. Going 10 over in pedestrian areas kills people.
https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-severe-injury-death/
To be fair, going 10 over on a highway isn't as reckless.
In residential I tend to go around 15-20 instead of the posted 25. I'm almost never in a hurry. I drive a 20 year old 2 seater convertible sports car, not a truck.
I was talking about highways. Posted speeds are 65 for the vast majority of them. Many are 5 lanes in each direction. If you go 65, you will be passed by 99% of traffic, including semi trucks. Most traffic is going 75-80mph and it's not uncommon to have the entire freeway cruising around there. At 65, you may be following the law, but you become an obstacle. I've been on highways on Sundays where traffic is flowing almost at 90mph. And I don't mean a few cars weaving, I mean almost everyone.
California freeways can be nuts.
The solution to speeding isn't to tell people they are speeding, it's to make people feel uncomfortable speeding via good urban design.
Why would we want people comfortable speeding?
Average speed cameras fixed this in the UK. Literally no one speeds there. There is a much easier solution.
Not where I was. There were paved roads everywhere, and the city I was in was like any decent sized American city with skyscrapers, malls, shopping centers, etc. The only difference is that the women walked behind their men and covered their faces.
They absolutely sucked at driving though. They literally have 4 and 5 lane highways (going in one direction) and they would turn them into 5 and 6 lanes. If a driver was in the far left lane and needed to take an exit, they would literally just go. It then became your responsibility to not hit them. When traffic got pretty thick, everyone drove with their flashers on. We avoided those types of highways as much as possible.