I mean, if you can just command citizens of other countries to evacuate their homes so you can blow them up... What's good for the goose is good for the gander...
this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2024
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Israeli settlers, so stolen homes, not theirs
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It's not about displacement. Those settlements have a lot of military activity currently so Hezbollah is saying "we're going to attack them so move out of the way"
Honestly it sounds to me like Hezbollah is just mirroring IDF tactics (maybe to make a political point). It's absolutely no different from Lebanese people being told to evacuate by Israel. Except for that one part where Israel gives you less than 10 minutes to grab your cat and daughter.
Except for that one part where Israel gives you less than 10 minutes to grab your cat and daughter.
And then also bombs you in the designated safe zones, so really it's nothing alike and minimizing civilian casualties is the correct way to prosecute a war, right?
If it's wrong when the IDF does it (to tell people to evacuate and clear their responsibility for any civilian casualties), then why isn't it wrong if Hezbollah does it? They can both be wrong.
My comment was entirely drawing a line of distinction between the two. I don't know how I can make it more clear.
If it is wrong when the union troops kill natives, then it has to be wrong when the natives kill settlers! /s
Please read about settler colonialism, this isn't a symmetrical situation.
I've read plenty. In fact, growing up in the middle east and doing a literature degree meant there was a post colonial reading of everything. Still doesn't justify further displacement of more communities. Palestinians can have their lands restored in fair ways and also allow Jewish people to stay (I am excluding illegal settler communities here). Both things can happen at the same time. Palestinians don't want people's apartments! They want to be able to get permits and move where they want without prejudice, and in some cases even restore ownership of their family move (if any of it is standing) and be compensated fairly and be given opportunities to resettle without having to make the current inhabitants leave. Those in diaspora don't want someone's garden! They want the ability to get a nationality and be able to settle there if they want. The fight is more about freedom than land. There is plenty to do to make it right to Palestinians but forced displacement of an ethnic group isn't one of them.
(I am excluding illegal settler communities here)
Israel isn't, you fucking idiot. There can be no removal of settlers unless we have the destruction of the state of Israel. That doesn't mean pushing Jews into the sea, that means the former Israelis who don't flee (as many will) are now living in a restored, non-ethnonational Palestine.
Palestinians don’t want people’s apartments!
Those in diaspora don’t want someone’s garden!
Broadly speaking, assuming they don't need to live under siege conditions, they want their land back. That's what movements like the March of Return were about. If it was your family's house, then whatever mockery of the human condition was built on it by settlers is logically also yours. Talking about stealing gardens is especially goofy since it's materially just a pile of fertilizer and dirt.
The fight is more about freedom than land.
This is such a convenient story because it lets you ignore all the historical injustice and Israel's role as a settler-colonizer and look only at what is happening right now -- Palestinians being penned in and bombed, where of course their first concern is not being bombed -- and make that the whole issue. Remove siege conditions and suddenly they aren't as concerned with their ability to migrate to Egypt, what a funny thing!
Sorry, I find it hard to discuss things with people who call me an idiot. Hence I won't really engage you. Have a nice day/evening.
Hezbollah is still very much restricting itself to attacking military bases (and Netanyahu's house).
Israeli soldiers however have decided that they can bomb every house in Lebanon and then go to sleep in their kibbutz instead of on a military base.
Yep, agreed.
Still not acceptable to use forced displacement as a weapon against civilians (also known as terrorism) and I will call it out whether Hezbollah does it or the IDF.
Lebanon does not recognize the existence of Israel. Every Israeli is illegally occupying all Palestinian territory.
Many Hezbollah members are Palestinians who were ethnically cleansed to Lebanon during the Nakba in 1948 and demand their land back.
An easy solution to this is for Israel to accept a two-state solution with the Palestinians according to mandated 1967 borders. This will earn Israel recognition and no longer classify them as illegal occupiers.
Whether Lebanon recognizes Israel or not has not much to do with the morals of displacing several communities. It's still wrong, just like killing Palestinians is wrong despite the lack of recognition for Palestine.
I am not opposed to the Palestinian cause. I myself am a Palestinian diaspora. So thanks for the history lesson for others to read but it's just repetition to me. Killing and forced displacement are still wrong, whether you like or or I like it or not and no matter under what cover it happens.
Palestinians getting their land back should never happen using yet another crime. What, Nakba 3 but this time for the Israelis? BS. There are middle ways.
What, Nakba 3 but this time for the Israelis? BS. There are middle ways.
That middle way is Israel accepting a peaceful two state solution right now. The Palestinians in Lebanon are the displaced fighting for their homes back.
Ethnic cleansing does not work as an argument for colonists actively fighting to expand further into Lebanon. It would be akin to claiming that forcing recent Russian colonists out of Crimea is ethnic cleansing.
But we are.talking about the population of the north -.- human beings, yeah? Is that acceptable to you as long as you do a colonial reading or something? Or is forced displacement still wrong?
When someone steals your house it is not "forced displacement" to take your house back. It is the opposite of forced displacement. The order of events is very important here.
Not in the least because the people who stole your old house are now using it as a base to launch military operations to steal your new house.
As stated before, Israel does not understand words. Many Palestinians have tried for decades. Israel is a terrorist state. They will never come to the negotiation table unless they are forced to it.
I agree, except I don't put blame on civilians. We are talking about the residents of the north of Israel who have lived there for many years, not mad settlers taking over a hill. They are civilian, not necessarily with any kind of agenda. Forcing them to leave their homes is forced displacement.
Israel is a terrorist state alright, absolutely, that's why I try to avoid becoming terrorists like them :)
Also I feel like Hezbollah issued those evacuation orders ironically, so I don't even think you really understand this... rather it appears to me like you are willing to defend Hezbollah no matter what they do (I'm a Hezbollah supporter BTW). Anyways, I don't think I'm in a position to judge you from a few internet conversations, but as a Palestinian I will say that the thought of "retaking" my home if it means living in someone else's apartment who would have been forced out just like my grandparents absolutely disgusts me.
Expelling the people who ethnically cleansed families from their house is not terrorism nor is it ethnic cleansing. It's called getting your stolen stuff back. Israel is using these civilian areas as military bases (as they do virtually everywhere).
Once again, Israel has absolutely no legal right to be there unless they accept the offer of the Palestinians for a two state solution. Only then will they come to legally own the land. The Palestinians have made an extremely generous offer by agreeing to the 1967 borders. All Israel has to do is take it. Before Israel loses its position of power and the Palestinians will no longer accept such a horrible deal.
There is no terrorism being committed by telling an illegal occupier they are required to leave your territory or face consequences.
Honestly I always dreamt of a one state solution where it's one democratic Palestine where Palestinians and former-Israelis could live together :) maybe one day.
Still forced displacement of a civilian population is absolutely wrong and terrorism but of course it gets easier to accept if you wrap it in some political excuse or the other. Just like Israel did.
It is obvious you are not personally affected by the crimes committed by Israel.
It is obvious you actually don't know me. I am indeed personally affected by it given how both my grandparents were in the Nakba, I'm a registered refugee with the right to return at the UN, and every day of my life has simply been worsened by the forced displacement and poverty and death my own family had to go through. Have a nice day.
Israeli settlers know exactly what theyre doing. They are far from innocent civilians.
Can you really say that though with enough to back it up? Some are born there and unhappy with how things are. Some stay to help Palestinians. A big chunk are colonial fucks. But there isn't anything that can justify dehoming more people. Palestinian should be compensated for their lost land fairy, in every way, but that does not mean it's okay to displace people yet again. I really don't see why Palestine should also become an ethnostate where swarms of people are forced out in terror yet again... rather than instead being a homogenous society that can restore Palestinians' rights in legal and fair ways that also ensure human rights for everyone else no matter who they are.
And I'm not talking about far right lunatics in Israel, but rather Israeli society at large.
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Uh... Okay... How is saying it's fair for Hezbollah to do the same to Israelis with the evacuation BS "Zionist?"
Shit, I thought I deleted it in time after I realized that I misunderstood your implication. I read the insinuation in the opposite direction, that if this is reasonable then Israel's evacuation orders are reasonable, because I've been so submerged in zionist bullshit lately. My apologies.
