this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2023
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FCC says “too bad” to ISPs complaining that listing every fee is too hard::Comcast and other ISPs asked FCC to ditch listing-every-fee rule. FCC says "no."

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[–] [email protected] 168 points 1 year ago (2 children)

listing-every-fee rule "impose[s] significant administrative burdens and unnecessary complexity in complying with the broadband label requirements."

Then, Mr ISP, you have too many fees or they are too complicated for you to charge.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 year ago

I don’t see what’s so complicated. Where’s the burden of writing “because we fucking feel like it” on the bill?

[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Exactly. How can you track payment but not write them down?

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sounds like someone wants to embezzle something.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Research and development costs

[–] [email protected] 143 points 1 year ago (6 children)

This is how government should work. A government FOR the people.

This is the kind of pro-consumer news that I've become accustomed to hearing only about the EU. I realize this doesn't stop ISPs from simply levying fees and only demands that they list them, but seeing an itemized list of where your money goes is a first step in realizing that you might be getting screwed.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

We have government regulators in Australia. Surprise, surprise, fees aren't lengthy, can be explained, and are investigated by the "Consumer Watchdog"—literally what the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission is called—if shit's starting to look shady or unreasonable. We love capitalism, but we put a long socialism leash on it to reduce strain, deception, and fraud that makes victims of smaller businesses or individuals.

I love it. It makes a lot of shady ideas never leave the board room and if they do, chances are it ends up being really bad PR. All the while, playing the capitalism game well still nets high reward.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

Capitalism is fantastic.*

  • as long as it's heavily regulated otherwise it turns the world into monopolistic hellscape.

I love it when super pro capitalists cite Adam Smith. His seminal book on capitalism clearly explains the logical hellscape outcomes that will naturally evolve over time but people gloss over that.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Broadband ISPs also had protected monopoly or duopoly status for a really long time. It's been fucking hilarious watching the cable company freak out because T-Mobile 5G is a viable option in my area now.

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[–] [email protected] 83 points 1 year ago

My monthly bill PROVES their systems are competent at itemizing EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE fee and tax and charge.

Them claiming it was too hard always was complete bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 76 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Good. Now ban data caps. Unlike water or electricity, you cannot run out of data.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago (5 children)

They don't cap data because there is a "finite supply of data" they cap it because there is a finite amount of bandwidth.

That being said though, it should still be banned because it isn't 2005 anymore and the bandwidth we have is absolutely ridiculous.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago

And the U.S. taxpayers have paid for nationwide broadband several times already.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

They aren't rate limiting bandwidth, but monthly utilization and those are uncoupled values. Besides your plan already limits your bandwidth. The data cap is just an added fee.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

there is a finite amount of bandwidth.

And why after saying "you will not get more than 100Mbit/s" they say "also you will not get more than 10Gbit/mo"? It is not just a note about theoretical limit, but actual data cap.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

I'm from the Netherlands and remember when we first got internet over the television cable. It was already unlimited use. Well under FUP (fair use policy), meaning that you could get charged when you extremely exceeded the downloaded data average of all other users. I downloaded everything I could get my hand on and never got a charge for it.

Now I have 1gig fiber connection for €60, I would go crazy if I had data caps.

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 year ago (2 children)

On the one hand I'm sceptical that a company couldn't tell customers ahead of time what fees they might be paying.

On the other hand, I once worked for an ISP that deleted its customer database and all backups to save itself data warehousing fees and literally had no idea how much customers were paying or what services it was providing them. So it does happen.

On the other other hand (yes, I have three), incompetence shouldn't shield you from the consequences of failing your responsibilities.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So…. Wait how did that work? If a customer called in and said they were being overcharged, or that they were paying X for Y and only getting half of Y… what happened?

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

That's a very good question and thankfully I wasn't part of the section who handled issues like those.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Where are you getting all these hands?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Dad had one of those glow-in-the-dark wrist-watches with the radium dials.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Their ISP was located in Chernobyl.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What I really want is to know what the "real" price is. Not the 12 month promo price. What's it gonna cost me when the price goes up? That should be required to be alongside the promo price.

[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Last time i moved i got cold called by Comcast to sign up for Internet. I asked them the price, they gave some deal. I asked what will be the price in 2 years when the contract was up. "Oh, well that really depends on what services you sign up for." I tell them i want only Internet at this given speed and i will never sign up for anything else.

...the woman on the phone just stopped talking. I asked can she not tell me the price after all the specials run out and i get my last bill in the contract. She said "i dont know what you want me to say."

Apparently they dont want people to know how screwed you are with Internet. I told the woman that i was going to write a letter letting them know that her inability to answer a simple question was the reason i was not going with their service. She hung up on me. Sent the letter and i got a call a few weeks later asking ifni wanted a super crazy deal they "never give to anyone." I asked my question again and they couldn't tell me my final bill so i hung up and reported the number as spam to my phone carrier.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Stuff like this makes me so glad my town has a local ISP that is competitively priced, works well, and they don't push any sort of deal on you.

The fun part about that is that before they were available in my area, they let my subdivision know that if 40% of us signed up, they would lay fiber in the whole neighborhood and we could choose them over Spectrum. Suddenly, mysteriously, our Spectrum speeds went from a ridiculous 20mbps to a still not great 80mbs. Can't imagine why.

Basically the whole neighborhood told Spectrum to fuck off. Now I have over 300mbps and I could get a faster speed if I wanted to pay for it.

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Good. That was such a bullshit excuse. It's literally outputting from a spreadsheet.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago

The ISPs arguments are bogus, anyway. The claim they don't know the costs when offering a contract, but suddenly remember each and everything when writing the bill...

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago

If they can't even give you an itemized bill, they're making a number up.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

My work is making bills out of ISPs' data. Every kb of mobile data and every call minute is tracked and rated.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you can charge the fee you can tell me about. Sounds pretty simple.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Yeah this isn't even the complicated tax spaghetti. It's just their junk fees.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago

They can charge it. It's in the system. This was always a stall or attrition tactic.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

How is there more than one? Unless you need something slightly unusual like a static IP. Otherwise, everything should be covered by type of subscription, cost of subscription.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Off the top of my head, I can think of a few for purely internet:

  • Base cost
  • Late fee
  • Static IP
  • Email Services (usually free and falling out of fashion)
  • Taxes (don’t know if this counts as a fee for this?)
  • There’s likely a “remote/rural location” fee
  • There’s likely an “only option” “fee”

The last two are likely what’s being fought against.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

BYOM fee? Mf Comcast reduced my bill for bringing in my own modem, what the absolute shit?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Reduced, not eliminated.

It's possible the BYOM fee is cheaper than the rental fee. You saw a decrease of your bill but doesn't mean they didn't charge you a different fee because they doesn't have to list that out, until now.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How fucked up is it that I would happily pay a bring your own modem fee, I asked and CenturyLink told me no

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

My IP hasn’t changed in the four years I’ve lived here.. why is there even a fee for that when I’ve seemingly gotten it for free?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It's for businesses where it's cheaper to pay the ISP to guarantee that it'll stay the same than it is to pay someone to fix things that break if it does change.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They got away with murder from Trump for so long they got used to it.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They'll just make a fee for having to list their fees, and make the consumer pay for it.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

It would be pretty bad for their reputation when its bad already.

But consequence? No. We can't get onto the Internet without them.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

don't charge any fees then you won't have to change the system. pretty simple.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Some decent news for a change at least

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

You just know that track all of those fees anyways to make sure they bill you for them. Not listing them is just malicious.

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