In addition to all of the answers here, development costs for protocols like ActivityPub can be partially offset by grants by organizations like W3C that work to build open standards.
this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2023
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No Stupid Questions
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No such thing. Ask away!
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Lemmy is a non-profit that receives grant funding through NLnet's NGI0 Discovery Fund. And also - individual giving.
Individual instances can fund themselves how they want. Besides donations - there’s certainly a world where some servers start hosting sponsored content to keep afloat. Given that users have so many alternatives, there’s a limit in how much they could get away with.
There’s also a world in which small government would run and operate instances if this gets popular enough. No reason why somewhere like Estonia can’t do so as a promotion of their booming tech industry.
Lemmy is a non-profit that receives grant funding through NLnet’s NGI0 Discovery Fund.
Okay, so I found the NLnet project page you alluded to and I've also checked Github and various pages on join-lemmy.org, but I haven't found anything that actually says how the project is organized from a tax perspective. I don't doubt @[email protected] et al.'s egalitarian intent, but is it actually a an official non-profit organization (e.g. 501(c)3 or the equivalent in whatever country the project is incorporated in), or have they not yet bothered to do the paperwork to form a business entity separate from themselves as individuals, or what?
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Plot twist: not everything needs to be profitable.
Ok but it still takes funding. Servers cost money, admins time has a cost and they gotta make a living. So there has to be some self sustaining quality to it otherwise you're relying on peoples generosity to donate and having admins that might have to go days without checking things (and burn IT burnout is bad enough when you're getting paid. Plus if these people do similar for work the last thing you want to do when you get home is fix some server issue.)
Donations are indeed key, at least for the major sites with thousands of users and a lot of pressure on both infrastructure and administration. It is not profit-oriented, but it does need to be sustainable.
It seems, however, quite a few people are happy to make some voluntary contributions to keep the operation up and running. I have not yet heard of a Mastodon server shutting down due to a lack of funding. In the threadiverse, a lot of people have been donating a coffee to the creator of Kbin and Kbin.social (who will provide a better means of donating in the coming days), and lemmy.world is receiving hundreds of dollars every month at Patreon and Open Collerctive, to name a couple.
Once you put users in control, many of them are willing to pay for products that they would otherwise never have spent a dime on. Personally I have never paid for any piece of software (other than streaming services), but I try to make a round and donate to open source projects every year. :)
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Alright, fair enough
Waaah!? Profits are the key to life itself! Blasphemy!
Long term, I see business opportunities for ad supported or paid instances with enterprise level management (reliability, maintenance, scaling, backup). The important factor is that they can’t lock you in - if you decide you don’t like the policies at your current instance, go find a new one.
Would that make you lose your comment history and username? For example I needed to create separate accounts for Beehaw and here. It’s similar to using different forums in the late 90s/early 00s in that way it seems.
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I run my own instance just because I want to build a community that people can enjoy. I do it out of my own pocket and don't ask for donations of any kind. Not everything is about profit for some people. If I were running a site as big as Lemmy.world, then I would consider it, but only to cover some expenses.
This. We need to stop seeing such online gatherings as opportunities to be profitable. I personally view them as social interactions and opportunities to exchange random and interesting information. Water cooler talks or forums (the ancient greek/roman sort - I wonder how many shitposts those had).
When you invite people over to your house for a gathering (also incurring costs - even if people bring something to cover the catering bit, you still have to clean up afterwards) you wouldn't consider it as an opportunity to profit right? (Or you are and are just hosting an MLM party or have some sort of agenda to push).
it is more sustainable to pay for your small chunk of a network than to pay for a monolith that encompasses everything
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Is that you Huffman?
As other people's said, profit is/should not be the driving force. However you should chip in every now and then towards the instance of your choosing. I have donated to lemmy.world and will do it again.
I see it as normal for the instance owners to have their costs completely covered and some extra on top for them for all the time spent.
Another important factor to note is it takes a fraction of hosting power to host lemmy vs something like reddit, because reddit does an insane amount of power hungry tracking in the background. Lemmy (and apps like jebora) don't collect anything, so don't need to constantly stream all that data to the main server instance
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Phase 1: Collect underpants
I believe Lemmy makes money like Wikipedia does for now
The internet and even the web didn't need profit for many long years before the web went commercial. I've been publishing my own website since 1996 without advertising or asking for donations. I just publish it because I love the topic. Profit is NOT the be-all and end-all of existence.
Don't believe me? How much would you sell your children for?
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I don't know the answer.
Neither do I. I just wrote this just so lemmy counts me as an active user
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The idea is to remove profit motive, and distribute the actual costs to the users or admins.
Same way as any enthusiast could have run their own BBS back in the day. The perk now is they're linked together.
I would be shocked if it stays like that forever everywhere, but since the early days there's generally been some way to eat the cost.