this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
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Microsoft owes $29 billion in back taxes plus penalties and interest to IRS::The IRS sent a surprise bill to Microsoft, hitting the company with a $28.9 billion bill for back taxes and penalties spanning a decade, starting in 2003.

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[–] [email protected] 108 points 1 year ago

The IRS agent who worked up this case is either going to be up for a few days of extra vacation time or perhaps a job at Microsoft.

[–] [email protected] 99 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Corporations are not people, fuck them up.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Even if we treat then like people, they easily deserve that (and some criminal charges) for circumventing tax law.

If organizations are treated like people, they must be accountable to the law in a proportional way.

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[–] jmd_akbar 91 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Next week, Microsoft negotiates the pending tax figure to $0...

Week after that, Microsoft is raising Office plans by $5 per user per month across the board to cover their tax bills...

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

this is not very wholesome

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wow I wish I could not pay taxes for 3 decades and like do something nice with all that money…

[–] [email protected] 56 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Well, in fairness, they didn't do anything nice with the money either.

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 year ago

Great! Now do Apple!

[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

So where are all those fake democrats complaining that Biden's funding the IRS is just going to have them go after small businesses and the lower/middle classes?

How's that go? Gaslight, obstruct, project? lol

The IRS overwhelmingly go after poor people as they don’t have the means to defend themselves and end up settling out of desperation.

I’m sure after they get more money they’ll totally change though lol

Applejacks where you at buddy?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

False dichotomy. They can go for a big, easy target as well as little peeps. Monitoring $600 transactions kind of shows they're not just interested in big guys.

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But they're a giant corporation so that's apparently fine.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago (3 children)

To misquote J Paul Getty: "If you owe the IRS $29,000 that's your problem. If you owe the IRS $29,000,000,000 that's the IRS's problem"

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah but they eared more than double that in profit in their 2023 year. This is taxes over a 20 year period.

In this context it does not seem like it’s too much.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago

It's still way more than "none". Let's not let perfect be the enemy of good.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I didn't believe you so I looked it up. You're wrong. Their gross profit is over 4x that amount in 2023.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

That's not wrong then. 4 times is more than double.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago

Clippy pops up on Excel. “Hey, it looks like you are trying to funnel revenue through a shell organisation in the Caribbean.”

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago

Next week's news: Microsoft negotiates tax bill down to $3.50. You still need to pay out the ass for healthcare, peasants.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Imagine any other citizen doing the same. they would be rotting in prison.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

I'd like to agree but it is not illegal to not pay your taxes. It is illegal to not file your taxes. So if you file your taxes and owe $5,000, you can't go to jail/prison for not paying it.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

With that money you could buy yourself a default search engine position at Apple.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Or 2 international space stations built today with modern tech

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Or not quite half a Twitter (pre-Musk).

Space stations cost less than what some "send a short message" platform does... insanity.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

With that much money, you could effectively end homelessness in the U.S. for a full year [^1]

[^1]: According to a rough estimate by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, it would cost $20 billion in 2012 dollars to afford every homeless person in the U.S. with one year of housing via vouchers. Independent groups have more recently recalculated this amount as ~$30 billion in 2023 dollars using similar methodologies. This is an estimated annual cost, but advocates argue that the program pays for itself -- both in the sense that eliminating homelessness will reduce costs to other social programs & in the sense that many homeless will eventually return to self-sufficiency if given a fair opportunity.

[–] yoz 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If Microsoft pays that I'll change my name to Microsoft.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lemmy name or real name? I want to see this happen. Win win.

[–] yoz 8 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

Most of the major corporations in the US do not pay their fair share of taxes. Fuck the greedy pigs.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

Five years from now it'll be settled and Microsoft will pay ten billion.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

IRS commin' in tellin' me "Ain't you boys goin' gimme some back taxes?"

I told them they'd be lucky if they got some front taxes.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

They can afford 29 billion. I hope they lose the battle.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Can't imagine running business is difficult when you don't pay taxes.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The issues that generated this debt pertains to intercompany transfer pricing.

Can someone explain what this means in english?

Edit: I looked into it more and it seems the IRS objects to how Microsoft attributed cost and revenue between its international entities. I’ve heard of this practice being used to arbitrarily shift tax burden internationally. For example, let’s say a US company builds Widgets that cost $20 to make and sells them for $50. By normal accounting, that would result in a net of $30 taxable in the US. But if the company spins up a subsidiary in Ireland to hold its Widget production patents, they can charge the US branch $30 per unit in patent royalties. This results in net $0 taxable in the US and $30 taxable in Ireland. One limitation is that the money has to stay in Ireland. But if the company is already a multi-national one, there’s a good chance they have legitimate business expenses in Europe that the money could be later spent on. The end result is that talent and work from American workers, and revenue largely coming from American buyers, is being manipulated to avoid paying taxes back into the American economy, just because the business has international interests and there are many tax havens overseas.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago

A company as big as Microsoft is not just one company. Just like movie studioes will famously make their film "lose money" to avoid royalty payments, I would bet Microsoft is trying to avoid taxes by selling services, products or profits "at a loss" between different corporate LLCs all owned by Microsoft.

Imagine if your time spent grocery shopping was an "import" corporation that overcharged your "works for a salary" corporation, all within your household.

But I'm sure someone can read the SEC filing and understand for sure.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

29 billion? That's it? It is so tiny!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

I hope they pay up and we just send that to Ukraine as aid.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

the interest is going to hurt

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yea but the us military depends on them continuing to support xp just for them soooooo, why should they pay? They could literally cripple the world

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

At this point, the military should just switch to Linux!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Problem is, there's a lot of really specialized, critical software, that is provided by vendors and throws an absolute fit with any change. You could maybe run Windows in a VM, but it may not work with the specialized hardware and networking gear being used, and now you're spending a bunch of extra time and money setting up a vm if windows inside Linux, which means you also have to train everyone on how to use the VM, adds another management/security issue, and adds another point of failure.

If they ever switch (the entire govt should, it would be so awesome to see the govt resources put into Linux development instead of M$ pockets) it'd have to be a very gradual process, and windows would still be around decades from now for legacy systems. (If the US hasn't imploded in civil war or the planet melted by then 🫠)

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I mean, the military literally has the guns. Microsoft will support them or it will be nationalized and then support them.

Not exactly a position Microsoft has much actual leverage in.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

The definition of too big to fail

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