this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2023
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[–] [email protected] 213 points 10 months ago (22 children)

The fact that Ram drivers are a close second is hilarious. I guess there is some truth to all the jokes about Rams being driven by aggressive idiots.

[–] [email protected] 99 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Aggressive drunk* idiots. Statistically.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 10 months ago (1 children)

At least Tesla owners can blame it on the computer. 🤣

[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago (1 children)

“It appears the fault was located between the drivers seat and steering wheel, sir”

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[–] [email protected] 62 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I am still waiting for the inevitable country music song about a broken hearted cowboy whose self driving car leaves him for another man.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Weird Al should be all over this.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I think there might be something to be said here for some potential selection bias. Are Tesla drivers like ram drivers, overly aggressive idiots but with the added layer of being relatively new tech?

[–] [email protected] 37 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

More boringly , maybe its selection on the circumstances too. For example maybe ev's tend to drive more in urban environments, more urban may mean more collision opprtunities per time spent driving.

Of course ram is a farmers vehicle is desgned for rural use, so must rarely be seen in built up areas. /s

edit: having glanced at the cited article - theres no obvious mention of any risk adjustment, the measures seem to be simple ratio of crashes per driver. No obvious control for whether the sub-population spend more or less time driving.
Rate per - place-specific-risk adjusted person-hour would work better.

As often with things like risk, it really helps to be able to do a multidimensional analysis. See if vehicle type/brand is significant after controlling for as many circumstantial factors and exposure related factors as you can reliably observe.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (9 children)

I assure you that large obnoxious trucks are a status symbol for many idiot right wing boomers and gen x, who take pride in daily driving a truck for their commute into, inside, and outside of cities.

They also complain about traffic, while simultaneously doing everything they can to under or unfund public transit, because they are literally incapable of understanding that adding more lanes to highways does not actually reduce traffic.

EDIT oh NO i missed the /s.

Oh well lol.

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[–] [email protected] 128 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Because a bunch of idiots take their hands off their steering wheel and think Elmo's car is 100% safe.

[–] [email protected] 95 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

That's probably because Elon's literally been trying to sell their autopilot as fully autonomous for at least 7 years now.

History of their self-driving claims

May 2016 someone dies using autopilot

November 2016 Tesla publishes video of self-driving with no hands on wheel

Class action lawsuit

More people die

[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago

They've been convince of it by that very man.

[–] Zagorath 112 points 10 months ago (9 children)

A friendly reminder that road safety advocates recommend against the use of the word "accident" to describe car crashes, because it downplays the fact that many crashes are preventable, either by better safe road design or by the drivers being more responsible with with 2 tonne machinery they are operating.

[–] [email protected] 102 points 10 months ago (28 children)

This is purely my anecdotal experience, but Tesla drivers appear to be some of the worst drivers on the road. There are stereotypes of drivers. BMW's never signal their turns, Jeeps think they can drive basically however they want including on shoulders, and Tesla drivers are oblivious to any kind of spatial understanding of the road around them.

[–] [email protected] 88 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Tesla drivers are oblivious to any kind of spatial understanding of the road around them

I blame the design that forces you to keep your eyes off the road. Making a left turn? Don't look left, take your eyes off the road and look down at the screen on your right to see the left lane warning. Wipers need adjustment? Take your eyes off the road and look at the touch screen because there are no buttons.

Now that there is data, maybe the highway administration can force Tesla to put driver safety ahead of esthetics.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

I'm sure that's one contributing factor, but I'd bet that the biggest issue is that the car is made to go fast. People who drive faster end up in more accidents. Hence why Audi / BMW drivers are also stereotypically bad drivers - they are both brands with a high-acceleration profile.

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[–] [email protected] 97 points 10 months ago (10 children)

i know many of you all just LOVE to hate on Tesla, it's like the shit flavor of he year for hating and no doubt Elon's shit fuckery is partially driving it, but honestly this is an absolutely classic Forbes piece of garbage. Firstly, it's a masterclass in selective bias - focusing solely on Tesla while barely whispering about Ram's near-similar accident rates. Classic move to sensationalize one brand over another. Then there's the U.S. only scope, which conveniently ignores the global context which could paint a vastly different picture. The article kicks off with a 'non-causal' disclaimer but then spends the rest of the time subtly linking Tesla's Autopilot to the high accident rate, without concrete evidence. It's a bit like saying 'no offense' before offending someone.

The Tesla recall is mentioned, sneakily implying a connection to the accident rate, despite the lack of direct correlation. The article is less about informing and more about crafting a narrative that fits a preconceived notion, all while skating on thin ice made of half-truths and strategic omissions.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 10 months ago (28 children)

Two things are true. The article is garbage, but so are Teslas.

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[–] [email protected] 92 points 10 months ago (12 children)

I know its super pedantic, but the word “accident” really grinds my gears in this context.

The proper terminology is “crash”.. accident infers that there is no fault or misconduct.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

The official UK Police term is Road Traffic Collision, or RTC, which does not imply fault or otherwise.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Trucking companies have switched the terms in the same way, since "accident" lightens responsibility. Even a not-at-fault crash could have been preventable often times, which is what they try to emphasize.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I have a hard time seeing why the average person should have a zero to 60 in the sub 6 second range. People fucking suck at driving.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago (5 children)

A coworker of mine was recently bragging about their new electric mustang and its zero to sixty time. "Have you ever gone zero to sixty?" was my only response. Of all the facts and figures, 0-60 has you to be one of the least important when buying a car.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Only up to a certain point. My Kia Rio has a 0-60 of like 16 seconds.. overtaking even on a clear road sucks.

The car is perfect otherwise, but I'd definitely want much better acceleration in the future.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Is it possible that there's a large overlap between idiots who are bad at driving and the type of people who buy Teslas?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago (7 children)

Yep, and the fact that a ton of people who get these cars legit think they will drive themselves...

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 10 months ago (5 children)

I blame the touchscreen first ideology. Give em some physical buttons that you can feel without taking your eyes off the road.

That and the sheer power can make accidents happen faster than you can react.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 10 months ago (4 children)

How can you write an article like this with zero citations? They mention Lending Tree, who is a mortgage originator and that's it.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 10 months ago (1 children)

But Tesla always says the opposite.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago (3 children)

regulators who don’t trust FSD are KILLING people because it’s so safe -Elron

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 10 months ago (8 children)

People are allowed cars they don't have skills to use.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Shouldn't Teslas be easier to use with all that automation? If not, what's the point of automation?

OTOH, I'm all for raising the requirements for getting issued a driving licence, it's just then we have to make a way for people to make do without driving.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 10 months ago (1 children)

No it makes it harder. I know that sounds crazy but it's very true. Basically humans are very bad at paying attention to boring things. The automation gives the feeling that the computer has it and the human is not ready and aware when the computer doesn't have it. Leading to lots of easily avoidable accidents.

There has been some really good reporting on this over the last year or so. If you want to learn more.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago

This is something Japanese train companies figured out awhile ago for train engineers. Because driving locomotives can be really repetitive, they train engineers to do hand signals and call out actions out loud even when they're alone in the car in order to help keep the brain active and focused.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago (1 children)

To add another factor:

People buy muscle cars and over accelerate because they can't handle the power of those cars

EVs accelerate much quicker than normal cars, Tesla's more than normal EVs

So if someone isn't using the automation they're still susceptible to the classic "overshot into or over something" situation

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

I'm not looking forward to the day a tesla cyber truck hits someone. That's gonna be a grisly scene in the right conditions.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 10 months ago (6 children)

Maybe they're sentient and actively suicidal.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 10 months ago

And doesn't his newest atrocity, long overdue and underdelivered/overpriced, also have a front end like a knife?

[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Our latest analysis uses QuoteWizard by LendingTree insurance quote data to determine which car brands have the worst drivers.

Wonder how many drivers of each brand they actually have, that would very much sway the numbers if they have smaller numbers of some brands insured.

This sounds like less of a "study" and more of a top ten list for page views.

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