I don't understand why some users really want a native app? A webapp is better in almost everyway. You don't need to build and maintain multiple pieces of software, it just works across multiple devices and configurations. You don't have to install and give permissions to yet another piece of software on your device, creating yet another vulnerability. It's like asking for betamax when DVDs exist. What's a benefit of doing so, just that in comes up in the app store when searching?
this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2023
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With a capacitor app it can be both a PWA and a native app from the same code base. This wouldn’t take away, only add possible functionality for those who choose to install it natively.
There’s a lot of native functionality that a PWA cannot access, like app icon changing, certain gestures that Apollo took advantage of (tapping on the top to scroll to the top, for one), and some other things that have been requested.
I would be so happy if we got Apollo-style scroll to top. That’s the one thing I’ve really been missing
Fair enough, thanks for explaining.
Well... Part of that is just that web apps have much worse efficiency and performance compared to native apps. That's not to say their performance and efficiency is bad, but a native app will beat a web app everytime. The DOM and JavaScript are just not great models in terms of efficiency and performance.
How is your performance with Voyager?
In my opinion, it's been great and feels pretty close to native anyway. Some issues with the screen freezing when trying to scroll after swiping away from a post but other than that, it's super nice. Plus updates are so quick to install, really like that too.
Problematic
I get lots of random freezes, actions not registering, etc
Doesn’t make it unuseable, but it’s not a great experience
With all browsers?, here runs fine with chromium.
The main issue is Safari, bugs in webkit bog everything down. And iOS is stuck with it.
No browser as far as I know. I installed the PWA and haven’t touched anything else.
I’m on iOS exclusively with no plans to use a desktop interface
I think it's acceptable, though I am working on my own ... for now experimental ... Lemmy client in C++/Qt/QML ... maybe eventually for desktop and mobile devices alike :)
A desktop client would be a game changer for sure.
imo we need a webapp alternative and voyager is it.
Many people have not heard of web apps, they do not know how to find or install web apps.
Most of them are more familiar with the app stores. They are more comfortable using what they are familiar with. They might have been using the app store since the original Angry Bird was released.
It is good to have choices.
Yes, I think even if it’s just a wrapper and nothing else changes other than the app being in the App Store, that’s probably worth it because you’d get more users.
The user experience is nicer as a native app, if done right. With a PWA, you have to deal with anything crappy that the browser inflicts on you, and the developer largely can't do anything about it. For example, Chrome sometimes just crashes or freezes entirely on me, which means Voyager can too.
See elsewhere in this thread for examples of little things that stem solely from being a PWA .
Don't get me wrong, I think Voyager is great for a PWA and it probably gets a lot of value out of being a PWA making it easier for people to contribute. But it's just not as good as native for me.
The developers can bring out both.
Most native apps are still JS in an app. Memmy is React for instance. So WefWef would be offered as both.
What makes it better than PWA?
Some functions are not open to PwA such as tap top of the screen to go back to the top, icon swapping, updates without deleting and re-installing (which deletes all you preferences) and some other iOS API functions.
You don't need to delete and reinstall.
Well if you wan to change the icon you do.
ever heard of React Native?
I hadn't no, but that's cool! I'm not a developer, but seems like a useful tool.
Voyager is perfect as is. Lightning fast to get updates, don't need to be at the mercy of Apple or Google to get into the official stores. And less work for the developers to publish a new version.
As users you don't perceive a difference. A native app in theory could cause your system to be vulnerable if a bug exists.
Because of the above reasons I'd really like Voyager to remain a PWA.
Voyager is perfect as is.
Except for the scrolling issue on iOS. If they don’t figure out a way to resolve that, I don’t care how many features they keep adding, I’m out. I’ve been tolerating it so far, and everybody keeps hand waving it away with “it’s a limitation of safari” and “all you have to do is not touch the screen for a second and it works like normal”. Uhh…no. This needs to be fixed. Once people have multiple other options, that don’t have this hindrance, (and honestly, I think we’re probably well past that point already) I can’t imagine too many people wanting to use this app vs literally any other choice.
What scrolling issue? The missing top-tap scroll-to-top functionality?
Every minute or so the app just refuses to scroll at all. The screen freezes up and nothing happens. The only solution is to sit and wait for a second without touching the screen until it decides to work properly again.
It’s borderline unusable, and I can’t fathom how so many people experience it and just tolerate it. I’ve just filed it under “Lemmy as a whole is new and kind of janky and it will eventually improve” but it’s starting to get to the point where it needs to be fixed or people will abandon this app for one that doesn’t have that problem.
Ug that sucks.
For the data point, I don’t have that issue. Not sure what the difference is. I’m using an iPhone 12 mini and iOS updated to the latest. Voyager works really well for me. Remarkably well.
Clearly it’s a problem many are having based on the upvotes. Hope it can be fixed.
So what you're saying is Apple sucks at programming, so you want voyager to make an iOS app?
I’m didn’t say or imply either part of that, but I guess nice try on trying to put words in my mouth for some odd reason.
Capacitor apps can be both.
Nothing is so perfect that it can’t be complained about. Also, voyager definitely has some (admittedly smaller) annoyances that stem from it being a web app.
annoyances that stem from it being a web app.
Such as?
- scroll-to-top doesn’t work
- back swipe is unreliable (works 30% of the time)
- after going back you have to wait a second before you can scroll
- no app icons packs
- no haptics
- text select doesn’t work if you immediately go down since it scrolls the page instead
Don’t get me wrong, it’s still impressive. But I‘m very aware that it’s a web app and I have to step carefully. These might be small things, but they’re constantly annoying me.
I don’t think them making the native app wrapper means the PWA is going away
don’t need to be at the mercy of Apple or Google to get into the official stores.
Ipa/apk s exist though, they can just have those on the website and not care about the official stores
No promises though :)
REMAIN CALM.
will likely be coming though
^^
I like that you can develop for both iOS and Android at the same time. And no need to verify every update towards the store.
Agree. This is a ridiculously good implementation and I don’t understand why nobody has gotten this right until now. Hallelujah holy shit.
Voyager has converted me into a PWA believer.
Native as just a wrapper with some extra features I guess.
I see not wrong having both, I think the key of Lemmy's adoption is how easy is to recommend Lemmy by just pointing to an instance with Voyager locally installed as m.lemmy.world.
Voyager should still be developed as PWA.
Sounds pedantic, but I still wouldn’t call that a “native” app. It’s just a wrapper.
I agree, that’s what the "sort of" stands for. Depending on how the implementation would look like, it might still make some of the small annoyances that I currently have go away (scroll-to-top, back swipe, scrolling hiccup, multiple app icons, haptics, …).
Personally, I would like to see a Native App. I get that this PWA makes it easier to develop for both Android and iOS, but there’s something about Native apps that just seem like a better experience to me.
I think it’s mostly the interactions that feel a lot snappier in native apps
custom Capacitor
Great Scott!
(sorry, I couldn't resist)
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