this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2024
54 points (96.6% liked)

politics

19160 readers
4912 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Long form article on school shootings, police dept scapegoating, training for active shooters, and the confusing time to be a police officer where public feedback wants deescalation in most scenarios, but expect military or warrior mentality training for school shootings responses.

Because cowardice is not an actual crime—courts have consistently ruled that police officers have no specific constitutional duty to protect citizens, except for those in their custody—Florida prosecutors argued that Peterson, in his job as a school resource officer, was a “caregiver” for the children at Stoneman Douglas. His trial would thus be an experiment in a new arena of police accountability: Can cops be criminally punished for failing to move toward gunfire?

Peterson had received only three specific active-shooter trainings, in 2007, 2012, and 2016. Although other courses had taught relevant or adjacent skills—“tactical pistol,” “combat life saver”—or had been lectures that focused on things like the history of mass shootings, Peterson had spent very little time learning how to do one of the most dangerous and complex tasks required of law enforcement: confront a shooter who has a semiautomatic rifle.

In one solo-response exercise, the script prompted instructors to say: “There is no reason to give up a good position of cover … Remember, the cavalry is on their way, so it’s better to hold, than to expose yourself to unknown threats.”

Over the past few years, the public has witnessed multiple distressing moments of baffling police behavior. All those cops standing, impotent, in the hallways of a Uvalde, Texas, elementary school while children were slaughtered. Cops killing Black motorists after traffic stops escalated needlessly. To policing experts, both problems fall under the same umbrella: improper use of force. Too little force, too much force—both lead to terrible outcomes.

Nobody is sure any longer what the job of policing is, Morgan told me, or how to weigh its different priorities. This squares with what cops have been telling me in recent years: It’s never been a more confusing time to be a police officer.

top 12 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago (1 children)

tbf, an active shooter situation is unique. When bullets are flying, I think it is very reasonable to flip away from de-escalation to a combat situation mentality. Whereas any situation where active combat is not occuring leaves de-escalation as a potentially viable path.

It's not like police should be expected to approach every situation with just one mentality, that would be counter-productive. No single mentality can handle the broad array of situations that real life can throw at a person, even if we might wish that we could just stay on one consistent mentality, for simplicity's sake. That's just wishful thinking though. No single mentality can solve life.

If that becomes confusing, then I start to wonder why this idea of different mindsets for different situations is so new. Do they need to ticket every speeder? No, it can vary based on the severity of the offense. That's not life-or-death though, so I understand that it is easier without combat adrenaline surging through your system.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I agree an active shooter is a a unique situation. But there's questions of what police get trained on and how many hours of drills or practice for certain scenarios they have. There are questions of SHALL vs MAY language in active shooter response trainings. And this article also talks about individual psychology and warrior mentality that can't be tested until it is really tested in a real scenario. Sure a person maybe should be fired for not standing up to the real life or death test, but is that criminal?

Also I think the interview of the civilian that did stop a active shooter situation is important. He did not think the officer was guilty of any crime. He believes he handled it well because he does more firearm training and drills than the average cop. He joked he loved competing against cops and gun comps because they were so bad and had weird drills where they had to change diapers on baby dolls and shoot with the ff hand for this competition.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Which is why people talk about reallocating funds toward agencies that handle many situations better.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

But how does that help school shootings which are specifically discussed in this article? Do we need designated SWAT officers at every school?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

See, that money would go to mental health services, education, etc.

Removing the indoctrinated from America's twisted gun culture maybe a part of that but it’s also outside the scope of police reform.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago

Yeah. But I think part of the article's thesis is that although there was a cop in the school in Parkland who didn't do anything helpful, it was unclear if he violated training procedure. On one hand the public wanted to crucify this officer for doing nothing to actively stop the shooter, but on the other hand many in the public behind defund the police type movements don't believe there should be cops in schools (let alone armored and heavily armed one) which would have not done anything either to have an armed and armored officer in this school situation.

Not sure what the answer is, but I think it's a complex one that requires folks to temper the ideal situation for real practical near term change.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Thanks for archive. Difficult for me to do from my mobile app.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

No worries mate, always happy to help when I can!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago

It seems like the Atlantic article is trying to explore the underlying systemic issues, not just the immediate legal ones.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

Yes, but this is a think piece that has interviews, questions, and political discussion around the aftermath and learning from this event and others.