People really handing their kids devices that have cellular service and unfettered internet access? All my kids devices have 2 layers of adblock, parental controls, and no cell service.
this post was submitted on 19 Apr 2024
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Ok. Or you could, you know, not give them these. Some pretty good data coming out on why this isn't a great idea. It's not just luddite ranting.
Yup. I let my kids (7 and 10) play video games or watch approved shows and that's about it. They get 1 hour on Saturdays, and they can "earn" more any day by reading: 1 hour reading = 30 min "screen time." We have a max of 2 hours/day, but they can bank time day to day.
It works pretty well. They definitely abuse the system by going beyond their allotted time, but if I "find out," they lose privileges for a couple days, so it seems they stay pretty honest on average without a ton of oversight.
I don't have any parental controls/blocking except for:
- ad blocker - screw ads
- passcode on Switch - mostly because of my 4yo, my older kids know the code
Basically, I operate on trust and honesty, and I think it works okay.
I’ll probably get my kids a dumb phone for school when they get old enough. I want them to have cell service for emergencies of any kind.
I thought about that but I myself am broke and have gotten all of these from relatives that no longer use them. If I could go back in time, I would have abstained and ripped our N64 from my brother's closet sooner.
I’d love a small box with a button that literally just calls my phone, has a mic and speaker and nothing else, no screen, no software, no proprietary lock-in. just a button.
i think an apple watch eould be great for that use case.
First, it is Apple so all sorts of lock-ins. Second - not everyone is rich like you.
Why would you not fetter the Internet access?
LoL your asking the addicted to not make their kids addicted. Good luck!
The worst thing about this in my opinion, is that this is mostly a problem for the children from less resourceful families. There is already a tendency for children from lower socioeconomic households to have more problems with concentration. Adding smartphones will only exacerbate the problem and fuel the fires of growing inequality.
this. the concern maybe not at the smartphone, but, quoting inaccurately from Amartya Sen, have the freedom to choose and to become, respectfully to others
The problem is those family sets the standard for everyone.
In middle school it started from poor family who can't afford other activities than handing down their old smartphone, then the percentage grew to the point not giving a smartphone to your kid means he's isolated from the group.
Perhaps, but parents need to commit to what they know is healthy for their kids. I didn't have a phone until I bought it myself in college, even though "everyone" had a phone. My sister is doing the same with her family (has a 17yo with no phone), and I plan to do the same with mine (10yo w/ no phone).
My kids (oldest 10) can whine as much as they want, but they're not getting a phone until they earn my trust. And given how much they break the rules we already have, it's going to be a while.
My sister and I aren't poor, nor were we growing up, we're both middle class or even a bit above. More people need to push back, because phones seem to be screwing kids up. Look at statistics for suicide and depression, suicide seems to be going up while depression remains pretty consistent, and that seems to have changed right around the time when smartphones became ubiquitous (2015-ish).
So no, my kids aren't getting phones anytime soon, and it really doesn't matter what their friends' parents do.
The problem with this approach is that you might be cutting off your kids from their friends.
Smartphone messaging apps are the way kids communicate nowadays, and if your kid is not in the group chat he/she is isolated.
Yes, that's the FOMO angle, but kids find a way.
Growing up, most of my friends had phones, and while I missed stuff, I went to most of the parties and had good friends. My sister has teenagers, and they have strong friend networks and whatnot. Good friends will accommodate you.
But communication is a small part of what kids do on their phones. A lot of it is "preparation," like following TikTok trends so they're up on what's currently popular. There's almost no positives here, only negatives if you don't spend your time the same way your peers do. If they don't have a phone at all, they'll blame their parents, but it's not the failing of the individual. I'm totally willing to be the "bad guy" if it means my kids aren't being peer pressured to do things that aren't beneficial to them. They'll still have access to tech, but only during limited times at home.
Good friends will work around your lack of access to a phone. I absolutely think the negatives outweigh the positives here, so I'm not letting my kids have a phone, it's not worth subjecting them to addiction and peer pressure. To me, it's like smoking (which was still cool when I was a kid), it just impacts your mental health instead of physical health.
My kid developed myopia. Phones are not good for kids at all. Plus they get get extremely addicted. No good.
I went to look around a nursery the other day, one that is attached to a school. We walked past kids that couldn't have been older than 6-7 dancing (possibly filming) to a TikTok vid, on a brand-new looking iPhone.
I'm usually against governments getting involved in the internet, since they have such a piss-poor understanding of tech, but it would be good to see some kind of regulation that bans people of a certain age from operating a smartphone without a limited set of operations (i.e. to contact parents, to get school alerts, etc), alongside school bans for the use of social media on school grounds. My wife is a teacher, and cyber bullying is rampant, whether it's the police getting called in over someone (underage) sending nudes and having them posted online once they break up, or fights being planned via iMessage or WhatsApp, and sometimes even people creating fake Tinder/Grindr profiles of their teachers (or to try to match with them).
Obviously, there are parents that'll just say "fuck it, it keeps them quiet" or ones that'll let them use a smartphone due to peer pressure, but a lot of it can be cut down before it becomes a problem.
In many ways, I'm quite glad I grew up with AIM and MSN Messenger. This kind of online power would have been crazy to me as a kid, and I don't envy kids that have to deal with this landscape.
Alternate headline: a quarter of UK parents are lazy and borderline absentee.
I think it's fine for kids to have a phone as long as the parents properly limit their use
Is the sort of parent who gives a 5 year old their own phone going really going to a limit the use? I think the crossover in that Venn diagram is pretty small.
It is not hard. Just have a family app and you can set an allowance of total and for each app. Takes like 10 minutes to set up.
I know, but my point is that sort of parent has no desire to do so.
Either do I. But it's better to know what's going on and putting in the work. Your kids only benefit from it.
good point
Beyond the proven addictive effects of handing a dopamine device to your kid, there are legal ramifications many parents aren't aware of.
WhatsApp and TikTok aren't just there like air, free for all to consume. They are service providers and both sides are bound by a contract, the EULA. IIRC, WhatsApp recently reduced it minimum age from 16 to 12. So if you install WhatsApp on your 8 year old's phone, you have broken the contract.
The only ramification being that they close the account if they find out. No one is getting arrested, getting a fine, or even going to court.
Seems bad, man.
I am actually surprised that they even can use it. This is the time when they start to learn to read...
You're correct that most 5 year olds cannot read.. However there's so much you can do without knowing how to read. Plus kids are very good at pressing buttons and can figure stuff out by trial and error.
I guess even pressing random buttons is fun enough.
Have you met a kid? Kids know more about tech st 2 than some adults. They can navigate devices very easily without reading. They just copy what they see.
Made that mistake once. No more.
Post-birth abortion?
They don't let you out of the room if you do that one. Plus the annoying little buggers are cute. And then there's the inevitable.... you're fucking getting old. In your 20s you tend to be pretty stupid and learn from that. In your 30s your at the top of your game. I'm your 40s you realize how valuable time is and that you're running out of it. I assume there's some more wisdom to be had between here and 6 feet under. Actually I'm choosing cremation. I want to be a vanilla creme. Why don't they just call it burning of the bodies? They gotta call it cremation because it sounds like ice cream like that. But yeah, when you die you don't take anything with you. So without kids to sell your shit and ruin everything, what's the point? Right?
how else are children supposed to communicate with friends other than at school?
They aren't.
Mail 📬 ?
Homing Pigeons 🪽?
I guess their parents could arrange for them to meet sometimes.
Wait, that's too much work.
Dumb phone exist. My children got their dumb phones when they started walking to school on their own (so they can call us in case of a problem).
No internet, only 4 harmless games and I can control which numbers are allowed to call them and which numbers they are allowed to call.
🤦♂️