emma

Someone died because of the Day of Rage. Apologies for my error. But go on, make sure we all know he was a great Catholic. Cause you know, if he'd been Jewish, there would be plenty on the platform making justifications for it.

This place no longer feels safe for me.

i'm a Jew. tonight i am finally able to cry.

A Jewish teacher was killed by her student in France today because of Hamas' call for a "Day of Rage".

Egypt took Gaza in the '48 war, built camps and put Palestinians (then called Arabs, the word "Palestinian" still most often referred to Jews) in them. Nobody much cared until Israel took the territory in the Six Day War and Egypt refused to take it back after.

Likewise Jordan annexed West Bank, built its camps, put Palestinians in them and held it until '67. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt all built camps for Palestinians WITHIN their own borders and refused to assimilate them or allow them to become citizens. They used Palestinians as pawns in their quest to eliminate the infidel state. It didn't work. No one much cared unless the pawns can be used against Israel.

Palestinians who remained in Israel are now citizens with voting rights etc. Israel didn't chuck them in camps like their neighbours did.

The camps are now cities by the way. But no one calls them that, cause "camps" is better to use against Israel.

Who the fuck said anything about neglecting security and being naive?<

Of course precautions would be taken. Short of going in with significant military protection, it wouldn't be enough. Hell, going in WITH significant military protection still wouldn't be enough amongst people who believe in martyrdom and jihad. Israel going in with military protection wouldn't be seen as a safety measure, it would be seen as provocation. Folks like you would be ranting against Israel for doing so and claiming that the deaths of the construction workers was justified cause, you know, Israel.

You're the one who's naive if you hadn't thought that through.

No. That’s an excuse to avoid being creative and if you’d reflect about it you’d see it. It’s social conditioning saying “we’re the victims, always”.<

I have reflected on this a great deal. My position is considered, informed and grounded in a very unfortunate reality I wish was different. I've not said that Israelis are the victims, always. You've not understood if you think that. Recognising the agency of Hamas, other militant groups and the infrastructure which supports them in and outside of Gaza is very different.

Don’t be complicit in that.

How little you've comprehended if you think that I am.

I don't have a plan for the future. Hamas and the other militant groups aren't going to recede any time soon. Quite the opposite now, they will be emboldened by their 'success' in brutalising Israelis. Israel can't attack Gaza hard enough to eliminate the militants. If Israel does less, it will be perceived by militants as a sign of weakness in Israel and continued evidence, not of Israel being strong or any other good quality, but of what the militants forced them to do. If Israel does less, the militants will do more.

It's an impossible situation. I don't have an answer. I do know that continuing to blame the entirety of blame and responsibility of Israel doesn't move us closer to any sort of resolution.

No. You've been wrong on so many points, including your assessments of me.

Your blockade comment above shows your lack of understanding of what I've written. This week's atrocities from Hamas are the undeniable evidence of what the blockade had previously prevented. Very different. The blockade only exists because it is necessary to reduce Palestinian militants' ability to slaughter Israelis. Some of those militants have shown you in undeniable terms how barbarously far they will go. That you were unaware of their intentions before Saturday doesn't mean they sprang into being recently.

Yeah, you're continuing to be clouded by emotion. I'll stand by that.

Peace has never been the goal for Israel, it’s about colonization and genocide. They have no interest in ever living alongside Palestinians<

WRONG.

They’re never going to draw any distinction between Hamas and the people of Palestine<

WRONG.

Israel either needs to leave occupied territory and remove all their settlers from Gaza<

ALL Israeli settlers WERE removed from Gaza in 2005. That's a really big mistake to make. Can't say I'm surprised though given how many other errors you're making here.

This is Israel’s responsibility because, as we see, they have all the true territorial and military power here. Palestinians have none.<

WRONG. Palestinian extremists hold the most important card. And before them Arab extremists and the armies of Arab nations which refused to recognise the state of Israel. Unilateral withdrawal from Gaza didn't bring peace. Nothing has. This crap that it's entirely within Israel's power ignores this reality. You have the luxury and safety to remain in that ignorance. Israelis don't.

practically all of the balls that can be played towards de-escalation are in your court.... “who is in a better position to end this”<

Hamas and all of the other extremist militant groups have the crucial ball though. They're the ones who are in the only position to end this. No country alone can make peace when their enemy refuses to. That refusal is the ball that Hamas holds, the ball that Palestinian militants held before Israel existed as a modern state, the ball that Arab militants held when the word "Palestinian" most often referred to Jews.

This crap about Israel holding "all the power", it's just not true.

I could rant to you about Fatah corruption but what good would that do.<

It's something we could agree on, you know. Not sure why you wrote this? Do you think I'm unaware of it or how it contributed to the election of Hamas in 2006? I lose count of how many years into his four year term Abbas is, working on 19 years now I think. We could talk about how much current violence in the West Bank is Hamas trying to undermine Fatah there and gain power for themselves.

“We’re going to donate concrete but because of Hamas we’re going to do the pouring, tell us where you want those houses<

If only it were that simple. Hey, let's present Hamas with official Israeli workers to kidnap and kill. What could possibly go wrong? 🤦

If only it were that simple holds for the rest of your propositions. If only.

My mistake, I was listing numbers off the top of my head and was admittedly overzealous, as happens in online discourse, and yes it was by multiple orders of magnitude. I will concede on this.<

That was an straightforward bit of overzealotry to demonstrate. You're far from the only one who does it, it's VERY common and abetted by a significant disinformation system. You get caught up in emotions, exaggerate - here by 495,000!!! - and use that as if it were justification and substantiation of your arguments. Other people do it too, and you'll have been persuaded by those exaggerations. The internet makes it worse but it's been going for longer than Israel has existed as a modern state.

The Gaza strip is the world’s largest open-air prison, due to Israel’s blockade<

How many times do I have to write this before it gets through? The blockade is entirely due to militants (Hamas and all of the other groups, with a collective history going back to the Ottoman Empire) and the terrorism they bring to rid the entire land of infidels/Jews and enact sharia law. Yes, the blockade sucks. Yes, it hurts civilians. Perhaps you haven't heard or seen what Hamas actually did - a level of barbarism Israel has NEVER done - beheading babies, raping dozens of women, parading their bodies through the streets, do I have to go on with this sickening list for you to recognise the depth of atrocities committed? They fucking beheaded babies. But the information is out there now. Trying to prevent this is why there is a blockade.

So tell me, if you’re not justifying the complete slaughter of all Palestinians in the region, what are you arguing for? If you’re not advocating ethnic cleansing, what is it you’re advocating for?<

Recognition of Hamas' agency in this. Recognition of militants' agency in this. Recognition of non-combatant Palestinian extremists' agency in this. Recognition of other Muslim agency in this. Recognition that every de-escalation by Israel has been used by militants, not to build Palestine but to regroup and rearm. Recognition that Israel cannot fix this unilaterally and that there is no one for Israel to negotiate peace with.

Why wouldn’t you at least keep quiet so you can play the role of a complicit bystander, rather than speak up and become an avid advocate?<

And we come full circle in your post, where you start by recognising your overzealousness in getting the number of Palestinian deaths you're accusing off so enormously, egregiously wrong, to you overzealously accusing me of this enormously, egregiously wrong sort of crap.

Your emotions have run away with you. However justified in those emotions you might feel, they're leading you to thoroughly unjustifiable errors.

What a bizarre and unfounded leap. Your assertion is completely and entirely false.

Jewish schools in Europe are closed today. Synagogues and other places where Jews gather have been evaluating the risk they face and acting as they need to. Some might say that the claims Hamas has called for a "Day of Rage" today are internet rumours but we have to take them seriously because the consequences of failing to are so severe.

There will be calls for jihad against Jews. There always are. As emboldened as militants and wanna-bes are by Hamas', as they see it, success in killing Jews (and yes, I chose that designation specifically and intentionally) last weekend, it won't be different now. There have been and will be calls for jihad against us.

When Palestine attacks Israel, antisemitic violence around the world increases. When Israel attacks Palestine, antisemitic violence around the world increases. This is what diaspora Jews live with.

Bomb threats on diaspora Jewish organisations started last Saturday. Diaspora Jews have been on high alert all week.

The majority of people at those demonstrations will be peaceful. But some won't. Some will use the gatherings to foment violence against diaspora Jews. There's no right answer in this. If you're affected and chaffing at the denial of your right to shout in numbers, please consider that this ban will very likely save lives, especially in France. Please don't dismiss this just because those lives are diaspora Jews and you don't much care about us.

Edit: Notices the number of people who have convinced themselves that putting French Jews in danger is alright, cause you know, Palestine. Terror attacks against Jews in France is a thing, you know. Done in the name of freeing Palestine, as if French Jews had the power to change anything in another country.