Running out of reality to blame, they got to make stories.
this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2024
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Liberal Gun Owners
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Man if only it was actually like how cars are regulated.
Required training, tests, insurance needs and has to be safe for others.
Gun ownership is a right protected under the 2nd amendment. If cars had been around during the revolutionary war then perhaps there would have been an amendment as well. But as it is cars can be regulated to a larger degree as they are not a protected right under our constitution.
Constitution doesn't say anything about banning regulations on guns.
Almost calls for it by saying we need to make sure they're well maintained
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
What an interesting concept. Insuring the gun owner could really have merit. Then you’d have a company who would be very heavily invested in the responsibility of the gun owner, as well as needing a record of firearms owned to be insured.
You'd also have pressure on firearms manufacturers and regulatory bodies because the insurance companies covering the owners would do everything in their power to shift blame away from their customers, so as to avoid paying out on the policies. Suddenly you have a lot of money behind preventing accidental discharge, etc
You'd also increase the cost of responsible ownership considerably, while irresponsible owners would be largely unaffected...
Wanna hear a song? Pay the fuckin' piper.
The person you're responding to is right, though: adding insurance costs takes a constitutional right and turns it into a privilege only for those who could afford it. We've seen what the insurance industry does with medical insurance, homeowners insurance, and every other type of insurance: they fuck the little guy over every chance they get. So you're just telling gun owners to throw money at a company that is just going to keep it, rather than tell them to take that money and attend biannual (twice a year) firearm safety training to remain in compliance with their license.
Not a single person in this thread has talked about subsidizing firearms training and making it mandatory, you all just want less guns in the hands of fewer people. So just say that, instead of hiding behind this false-altruist "Well, it'll only affect the bad eggs," yep, that's why good people are never denied medical treatment from their insurance, because it only effects the bad eggs.
No thank you. Guns ownership is a protected right under the constitution and can not be controlled to the degree that car ownership can.
I agree. Gun insurance is the future. You want to have your guns? Fine. Underwrite the risk.
You may think you want guns regulated like cars, probably because you heard it somewhere and thought, "yeah, that seems reasonable".
But if you stop and think about how cars are actually regulated vs how guns are actually regulated, I think you'll maybe see that it's perhaps not so reasonable an idea after all.
First and foremost, guns are already regulated in significant ways that cars are not. For example, requiring background checks, prohibiting purchasing/owning by particular groups of people (e.g., felons, drug addicts, domestic abusers), and numerous places where you're not allowed to take them.
None of those restrictions apply to cars (though maybe they should), so "regulating guns like cars" implies rolling back those restrictions on guns. (Otherwise it wouldn't actually be "like cars", would it?)
Second, a lot of restrictions on cars are for common use, and the minute you fall outside of that, many of those regulations don't apply.
For example, in many (maybe the majority of? Not sure) states, the whole license/registration/insurance requirement only applies to vehicles that are operated on public roads (of course, your bank will require insurance if you finance, regardless).
So a farmer could buy a brand new pickup for cash, sign an affidavit saying it won't be operated on public roads, have it delivered by flatbed truck to his farm, then his 14 year old kid could drive it around all day with no license, registration, or insurance, and everything is (potentially, depending on the state) completely within the law as long as it stays on the farm.
There are parallels that can be drawn with gun purchases for use on private property, but hopefully you get my point by now.
So for sure, if you want more/better gun regulations, then by all means, advocate for that. But please don't suggest that we regulate guns like we do cars because that's a terrible idea.
You didn't make a point. You talked about some unrelated things with operating vehicles on private roads, which is nonsense, because plenty of laws still apply to the manufacture and sale of the vehicle initially, and also all laws of civil liability still apply to it.
Fuck the NRA.
The required training for a driver's license is a bit of a joke.
It is more than is needed for gun ownership. The arsenal I inherited required nothing. The one I have purchased required a 48 hour wait I think it was. In none of the cases did I have to prove I knew how to handle a firearm.
Do you really think requiring more training before getting a driver's license wouldn't be used to disenfranchise minorities?
I'd rather a joke with a little training and safety classes to lower your liability insurance than the current solution of ignoring the problem
Washington State just legislated a legal requirement that all gun purchases must include proof of a completed gun safety course. Unfortunately in typical government fashion, they did it in the stupidest way possible. It's an online class that can be finished in 5 minutes, you have to bring printed proof of it every time instead of storing the status somewhere, and there's no exemption for law enforcement, military, or scouts. It would be great if it was an actual gun safety course and they exempted people with a proven history of gun safety training.
If only cars were actually regulated like we pretend they are...
God I wish we could apply that to every right, y'know? Like, wouldn't it be great if we could test people before they could vote, so that we knew that they understood the functions of the different branches of gov't, the limitations, the history of legislation, the origins of common law and where our style of government comes from... It would be so wonderful if rights weren't really rights at all, but were privileges only given to the most well educated and intelligent people.
Maybe even some literacy tests.
Oh, or if you needed a license and credentials in order to speak in public! That would be awesome! Or if you needed to be an attorney to assert your right to remain silent!
The 2nd amendment doesn't give the right to all Americans to have guns, it simply provisions a well regulated militia. Right now we don't have sufficient regulation to keep gun violence at a reasonable rate, so we clearly don't have a well regulated militia as detailed in the constitution
Categorically false. When you look at the circumstances surrounding the drafting of 2A, it's clear what the framers intended. (EVERY able-bodied, white, adult male was a member of the militia. They were obligated to provide their own militarily-suitable arms, and were likewise obligated to train themselves in their use. Moreover, the existence of the right was a holdover from English common law, which recognized the right of people to be armed. Oh, and the first battle of the American Revolution? It was because the British were trying to seize arms, including a cannon, that the people had been using to protect themselves from First Nations peoples.) When you look at the debate that surrounded the National Firearms Act of 1934, it's clear that they knew a ban wouldn't pass court review; hence the reason that the opted for a tax. (And, BTW, they originally intended to include pistols; that fact that 'short barrel rifles' are part of the NFA today is because they were sloppy in making the edits prior to passage.) When you look at nearly 250 years of precedent, it's clear that it's an individual right. And when you look at SCOTUS rulings--Heller v. D.C., McDonald v. Chicago, Bruen v. NYSPRA--it's definite.
BTW, "well regulated" at the time was understood to mean trained, specifically people that knew how to use the arms they had the right to possess.
Wouldn't be great if the police could just search anyone for any reason (or no reason) at any time unless they have obtained a privacy permit? Think of how many criminals they could catch, including people who shouldn't have guns, if they could just set up road blocks and strip search everyone who comes through (except those with permits, obviously). For good measure they should make us all take off our shoes too.
"providing evidence that you won't be a danger before being allowed to have a weapon? HOW DARE YOU!"
...That's a logical impossibility though. You can't prove a negative.
And now we're right back to laws that prevented non-white people from owning firearms.