73
UN secretary general visits Russia for BRICS summit despite Kyiv's criticism
(kyivindependent.com)
this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2024
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Israel isn't done yet. Hezbollah is almost done, but there is still the head of the octopus: the Iranian regime. As long as they are in power and are working towards nukes, Israel will not be able to live in peace.
A two state solution is a long term goal. Israel's withdrawal from Gaza in 2005 was the first test of a 2SS and look how that turned out. The Palestinian people have a role to play in this too, by making a commitment to pursue peaceful coexistence. Otherwise we will go through all this again in another 15 years.
So, that's a no.
As long as there's an Arab or Persian population around and angry, there's no 100% safety. I'm sure you know that. If anything that stands in the way of Israel's safety is a legitimate target, which is what you're saying at this point, you're talking about genocide.
This is the part where I mention I myself am Jewish, if never practicing, and that kind of thing is painfully ironic.
Where did I say that Israel needs to wipe out any particular population? I said they need to deal with Hezbollah, which is a genocidal terror army, and then deal with the Iranian regime, which is a genocidal Islamist government regime. Putting off a two state solution until the Palestinians can agree to stop trying to murder Jews isn't advocating for genocide. That's a ridiculous statement you made.
Glad to hear that's not what you're saying - it really feels like that's where the region is headed.
What's the alternative to a two-state solution? One state is a pipe dream right now, and the status quo leaves Israel unsafe. Even if every single individual Hamas fighter was killed somehow, there's a lot of Palestinians who want revenge for the destruction of their whole world, and another organisation would start.
Does it really feel like that's where the region is headed? Is that why Israel keeps telling Gazans and Lebanese people to move out of target areas? Don't you think Israel could eliminate all 2 million Gazans in a few hours if they wanted to? Step back from the propaganda and think critically for a minute.
If you think there are a lot of Palestinians who want revenge, that's all the more reason to postpone the recognition of a Palestinian state. Part of the problem with the two state solution is that it rests on a faulty assumption: that statehood is a goal of the Palestinian people. The past 75 years of history shows that to be false. If they wanted a state, they would have one. The goal of the Palestinian people (or to be fair, the Palestinian leadership) has always been the destruction of Israel. That's what has always defined Palestinian nationalism. So pushing the 2SS is pushing a solution on the Israelis and Palestinians that the latter never wanted, and now the former don't really want either.
The only real solution is one that will take time and involves several important developments:
I agree that propaganda is bad, but both sides make it. That's why I like hard numbers so much.
It's clear they want to look merciful, especially to their Western patrons. You'll recall that the Nazis had a voluntary emigration program at first, and then blamed anyone still around for not leaving. (Israel isn't the Nazis, but maybe Yugoslavia)
As for your numbered plan, I feel like it makes some unrealistic assumptions. Like that step 1 is possible, and that Israel won't keep building out settlements instead of actually helping Palestine. It's basically Likud's publicly announced plan, which the IDF leadership itself doesn't buy.
In practice, if they try that, insurgent activity will never stop, and the Israeli occupation will never turn into a strong Palestinian state. It's just a matter of time then before Israelis get tired of it and contemplate something more extreme, as a minority already openly are.
I see, so you think Israel is telling civilians to move just so they *look *merciful. Because it just can't be possible that Israeli leaders are human beings with consciences and actually want to prevent civilian death if they can. Is that the implication?
Yes, of course my plan rests on a lot of assumptions. The settlements are the most complex part of negotiating peace between the two sides. But agreements have been reached in principle in the past (like Camp David and Taba). It's difficult but not impossible, provided both sides are willing to figure it out. I probably should have included in my plan that the Netanyahu government eventually has to be replaced by a more moderate administration.
That's never stopped us humans before. Germans are nice people, too. And Palestinians, for that matter - and yet Oct. 7 happened. Regardless of what the Torah says, we're not special of different from the rest.
Look, it's easy enough to make make wild assumptions, but at that point you're on the same level with the one-state-solution people. I want my government to treat this like every other international ethnic conflict, because that's what it is. Putting the Bosnians or Serbs individually in charge of the former Yugoslavia wouldn't have been good, and neither will helping the Israelis do whatever they want.