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It's starting to worry me that "free speech" has become something to be feared and avoided. Avoiding confrontation to your beliefs just makes you and your beliefs weaker.
Of course, but it's important to keep in mind that so-called "free speech absolutists" don't actually want free speech. They want freedom of consequences for their very specific, narrow, non-free speech. They would love to censor the living shit out of everybody else.
So there's a difference between free speech, and, well, "free speech".
Yup, that's been my experience of listening to them as well.
It's so enticing to people that are unfamiliar with the narrative that free speech absolution is the ideal and that these guys are standing up for it. When you pay attention they bend their own rules for themselves all the time.
Oh so everyone who wants free speech just wants to shout slurs? You were saying something about black and white thinking...
Way to incite anger and hatred for no reason. If someone wants to do that then they suck and you should tell them. You might gain a better understanding of yourself and the world if you challenge peoples beliefs instead of creating imaginary strawmen to get angry at.
The biggest problem with this "us vs. them" mentality everyone seems so eager to jump towards, is that since both sides must always be opposed, you're now on the side that is against free speech. That's going to do nothing but strengthen their side and weaken yours. Open your heart to other humans, especially the ones you don't like. Try to understand them and realize you can hold your beliefs without silencing theirs. How will anyone change if nobody talks to each other? Words are what make us human, they have the power to change everything. It's how we've survived as long as we have. One "hello" from a fellow human can save a suicidal persons life. The only way you can change the world is if you speak your heart and listen to others.
I know there is a lot of hate and nonsense out there but you're grouping it all together under one image and painting everyone who doesn't think like you as the enemy. It's not helpful. Yes, they do it too, but that's not an excuse. Be better.
They are using their speech to foment stochastic terrorism against people like me. So no, they can't "hold their beliefs" whilst I act as if they're just words. They want me erased, and I'm not going to find a corner to die in just to uphold an ideal of speech purity that never existed in the first place.
Sorry, I should have said "you"
Yeah, you totally miss what is going on here. You are not going to find a person in this thread that isn't open to talking to people who have different beliefs than them, and engaging in sane rational discussions. That is not what this is about. The alt-right is co-opting the term "free speech" to be able to say any bigoted and hateful thing they want without having to face any repercussions for doing so. On top of that, they are also CENSORING the fuck out of any opinions they do not like. Argue with them, and get banned. It is happening everywhere right wingers are yelling "free speech". Look at everyone Musk has blocked on ~~Twitter~~
Could you explain what the person you're responding to was saying that was "us vs. them"?
Certainly
Wow, that's pretty subtle when you're going against actual Nazis.
It's one thing to speak from your heart and foster dialog so that different people can share their different POV. However, I'm someone who is on these forums to spend a little time learning about new ideas and issues without it becoming a heated, involved debate. These "free speech platforms" seem to inevitably devolve into arguments. I'm not LGBTQ+ but a lot of arguments and tense, heated conversations seem to be centered around that lately, with reaching a middle ground impossible. (especially since on side wants the other to not exist or have any rights at all). (ETA: To be clear, a lot of free speech proponents just want to be able to say racial or otherwise bigoted slurs without any repercussions. ) I don't want to hear other people arguing on my limited online time.. I just want a pleasant, educational, respectful experience, which is what I get on kbin, Lemmy, and Tildes. I know that some people love debating and winning arguments but I am not here to change minds or win on the Internet. If someone loves debating and dominating a conversation, more power to them, but I seek out chill, mellow online spaces. Real life is stressful enough. Can you understand why I might want to avoid an advertised free speech space?
Sounds like you and nazis have more in common than you think.
Your viewpoint is beyond disturbing. The idea of exterminating any group of people based on some arbitrary criteria is horrible. You're talking about human lives, real people with stories, families, and potential. Advocating for their 'termination' like they're just a problem to be erased? It's chilling. This is not just about right or wrong viewpoints; it's about basic human decency. Such a twisted mindset has caused untold misery in the past. Your belief genuinely terrifies me.
Also, ALL convicted criminals? From shoplifting to murder? Where do you draw the line, o' holy judge, jury, and executioner? Hopefully you've never trolled someone before or we'll have to send you to the gas chambers. Redemption is not allowed in this utopia.
Dude needs to watch Death Note and see what happens when one person takes vigantism this far.
You may want to look up the psychological concept of projection.
Uhh... dude, chill. Calling to exterminate an entire group of people, even if they're horrible, hateful people, still makes you no better than they are. You can take away their platforms, prevent them from spreading their vitriol, but extermination is a step too far. They're still people.
You're getting too angry at strangers on the internet. Go outside and get some fresh air, pal.
We aren't talking about disagreeing between tax rates, or whether or not to privatize social security. We're talking about whether or not a particular group of people should exist, whether people should have rights, be able to vote, go to school, etc. This isn't one of those times where we sit in a circle and has things out. We aren't grouping different things together. It's just the one thing. Human Rights. And we aren't going to give an inch on it. It's absolutely a hill worth dying on.
And how do you expect to change anyone's mind if you don't talk to each other? How are you supposed to empathize, be empathized with, challenge views, and have your views challenged? Nothing changes and society is weakened by burying your head in the sand.
Again, this isn’t any other thing in existence other than human rights. If you want to have a conversation about how Cilantro doesn’t taste like shit, we can have a discussion about it. It tastes like soap, but I’m willing to hear you out on why I should make my food taste like soap. If you say a human being doesn’t deserve the right to be themselves I’m ending the conservation.
How can I be any clearer? There is one thing. ONE THING. Human Rights. That’s the line I’m not crossing. Other subjects, fine, let’s discuss. I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. I’m not lumping anyone under that umbrella. They lump themselves under it. If you’re somehow the unicorn of a Trump Republican LGBT supporter in the current year, you’re probably confused as fuck, but I’ll engage with you.
And let me guess. You also convieniently define like 99% of your opinions as "human rights" so you can dismiss anyone who doesn't agree
Give me an example and let's find out.
The term is being abused as a dog whistle for freedom to pass prejudice and discrimination. Being apposed to a "free speech" platform risks you as being against said free speech. It's falling under the paradox of tolerance concept.
"Free speech" has become an anti-feature now due to the prevalence of people who use it to justify enabling bigotry. It's sad.
Your comment history is a cesspool. Yikes.
Exactly, and that's why this topic is important to me. I don't wanna be silenced for wrongthink.
Yeah, thanks for proving my point.
I completely agree. I am a stressed sideliner politically, and I like to hear differing opinions, but I'm so tired of the term "free speech" being associated with alt-right dog whistle rhetoric.
What ideas have you heard from the Right in the last decade? Seriously, what have they come up with that wasn't misleading at best and a total grift at worse? I made the move politically left over the last 15 years and don't feel I really changed all that much.
Did you ever notice that the Democrats pushing for the strictest covid restrictions were vacationing in Republican-led areas like Florida and Texas so they would be able to party without masking or social distancing?
Humans are social beings. You can't keep people locked down forever. Republicans were the only ones who even pretended to care about the side effects of forcing people to lock down. Sure, there were business motivations too, but society can't function if everybody is forced to stay at home. Mental health, divorce, domestic violence, and alcoholism were terrible during the covid restrictions in states that had them, and only Republicans even pretended to care about anything other than case numbers.
Other than that, energy independence is a big one. If you shut down fossil fuel production here, we just end up buying them from other countries. Especially since Democrat governors like Pritzker in Illinois are fighting against nuclear energy, which means more coal and natural gas power plants. Wind and solar will only get us so far. Nuclear is our best bet to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels.
I'm also against government overreach and believe the Bill of Rights is important.
That's not an idea, that's finding an excuse to be contrarian. They were 100% being disingenuous throughout.
Nuclear is not only supported in the latest DNC Platform it's supported under Biden's IRA bill.
“We have to invest enormously today to increase our reliance on cleaner and more renewable sources. And that includes nuclear,” Amos Hochstein, special coordinator for international energy affairs for President Biden, told Yahoo Finance. “We haven't built a nuclear power plant in the United States in decades. We have a fleet that needs more support in order to be able to stay up. Look at what happened in Germany by taking offline nuclear. They’re now burning coal ... that's something we shouldn't be doing here.” https://news.yahoo.com/nuclear-energy-could-make-a-comeback-under-democrats-new-bill-181427778.html
That's great, but Pritzker literally just vetoed the return of nuclear in Illinois.
I don’t live there, so there’s nothing I can do about it. Write your representatives if you do.
Liberals are terrified of conversations. They updated the TOS and explicitly banned any kind of hate or discrimination but allowing people to have disagreements and conversations now makes you a bigot. 🤷
I mean, I get it, a lot of "free speech" platforms ARE a dogwhistle to all kinds of hateful shit but it doesn't have to be that way.
It also came out on mod discord that jayclees hates lgbt people and thought they were scaring off conservatives. Luckily he won't have that problem anymore as the dog wasn't in the right frequency so everyone heard it loud and clear.
What does "hates lgbt" mean in this case?
EDIT: just show me the hatefull comments. I'm out of the loop
Would you care to share what was said?
Not that you're wrong but far too many people equate "things I don't like" with "homophobic".