this post was submitted on 01 Jun 2024
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[T]he report's executive summary certainly gets to the heart of their findings.

"The rhetoric from small modular reactor (SMR) advocates is loud and persistent: This time will be different because the cost overruns and schedule delays that have plagued large reactor construction projects will not be repeated with the new designs," says the report. "But the few SMRs that have been built (or have been started) paint a different picture – one that looks startlingly similar to the past. Significant construction delays are still the norm and costs have continued to climb."

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 months ago (9 children)

Does anyone know about the technology that nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers use? Why are they able to operate but we can't use the same technology on land?

[–] [email protected] 34 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Because if the military wants something, budgets are big. And they do not need to make money.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Military expenses, the only socialism acceptable to Americans.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Gotta love how the post office is legally required to show they can turn a profit, but the military has a history of building literal burn pits that essentially burn US tax dollars by lighting equipment on fire and giving soldiers cancer.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/most-ridiculous-things-united-states-military-spent-money-on

Boner pills, anti-rape lip balm (which they destroyed) and other such brilliant things.

And the margins for DoD contracts can be through the roof.

During her face-off with manufacturing company TransDigm at the hearing, AOC questioned the company’s alleged price gouging on a small metal part, called a “non-vehicular clutch disc,” that the government purchases for the Department of Defense.

According to the congresswoman from the Bronx, the part is about 3 inches in size and costs TransDigm $32 to produce — which is why she’s pissed the company is charging $1,443 per disc. The company reportedly sold the government 149 discs for $215,000.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 5 months ago

I was a nuclear operator in the Navy. Here are the actual reasons:

  1. The designs are classified US military assets
  2. They are not refuleable
  3. They only come in 2 “sizes”: aircraft carrier and submarine
  4. They are not scaleable. You can just make a reactor 2x as big
  5. They require as much down time as up time
  6. They are outdated
  7. The military won’t let you interrupt their supply chain to make civilian reactors
  8. New designs over promise and underdeliver
  9. They are optimized for erratic operations (combat) not steady state (normal power loads)
  10. They are engineered assuming they have infinite sea water available for everything

There’s more but that’s just off the top of my head

[–] [email protected] 28 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Because military engineers overengineer these things from the most expensive materials available, and they also perform frequent maintenance on them, which is also expensive.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago

To add to this: A certain type of Soviet submarine used a lead-bismuth alloy as coolant for their reactor. The coolant solidifies at ambient temperature so it had to be heated indefinitely by some way or another or else it solidified and trashed the reactor. I don't think any of them exist anymore since Russia wasn't able to afford sustaining the giant navy after the Soviet collapse.

Just goes to show how insane nuclear submarine engineering is, or was at some point.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago

Why are they able to operate but we can’t use the same technology on land?

Military budgets. You can use the tech, but no civilian can afford it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

I'm pretty sure they essentially are "one time use" only.

Extremely simplified:

They run for 20-30 years without refueling, which means the reactors/system could be built more compact, a higher level of safety and require less maintenance / monitoring / fine-tuning.

All those parameters are connected in an equation which means if you want higher safety you have to make another parameter "worse". By making the system "one time use" you set the "refuelability" and "repairability" parameters to the lowest and can therefore up the other parameters.

Also, military requirements are very different from civilian.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

Nice source for tech stuff, apparently.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-atlas/

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (8 children)

Why can't we switch to thorium and molten salt instead? Much cleaner, much safer, same idea.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Because it is actually not that simple, especially on the "cleaner" and "safer" parts.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago

The technology doesn't exist in a commercially viable form. That's why.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

Containing it for a while seems to be super hard. It's really corrosive to most anything that can withstand the heat and pressure. Basically, they haven't managed to make plumbing that works for it. Liquid salt gets mad at shit all the time.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

And even more expensive, no?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This was pretty much obvious for everyone from the beginning, except if you're a fanboy of this tech.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

So an interesting thing I've noticed people doing is basically claiming that whatever other side is being astroturfed by the "real evil", right. "Fossil fuel is funding renewable FUD of nuclear reactors!" or "Fossil fuels is funding nuclear FUD of renewables!". You can also see this with liberals claiming that anyone who disagrees with the DNC is a Russian bot, and with people who disagree with libs claiming that libs fund radical right-wing candidates as an election strategy and that this is one of the reasons why they are basically just as bad as those right-wingers.

The core thing you need to understand about this, as a claim, is that they can both be true. They can both be backed opposition, controlled opposition, astroturfing. Because it's not so much that they're funding one racehorse that they want to be their opposition, so much as they are going to fund both sides, plant bad faith actors among both sides, bad faith discourse and division, thought terminating cliches, logical fallacies, whatever, and then by fueling the division, they've successfully destroyed their opposition. The biggest help to the fossil fuels lobby isn't the fact that conversations about nuclear or renewables are happening when "we should be pushing, we should be in emergency mode, everyone should agree with me or get busted" right, as part of this "emergency mode" is us having these conversations. No, the biggest help to fossil fuels lobbies is the nature of the discourse, rather than the subjects of the discourse.

Also I find it stupid that people are arguing for all in on one of the other. That's dumb. Really, very incredibly dumb. Mostly as I see this discourse happening in a disconnected top-down vacuum separate from any real world concerns because everyone just wants to be "correct" in the largest sense of the word and then have that be it. Realistically, renewables and nuclear are contextually dependant. Renewables can be better supplemented by energy storage solutions to solve their not matching precisely the power usage curves and trends, but a lot of those proposed storage solutions require large amounts of concrete, careful consideration of environmental effects, and large amounts engineering, i.e. the same shit as nuclear. It can both be true that baseload doesn't matter so much as things like solar can more closely match the power usage curves naturally for desert climates where large amounts of sunlight and heat will create larger needs for A/C, and it can also be true that baseload is a reality in other cases where you can't as easily transition power needs or try to offset them without larger amounts of infrastructural investment or power losses. Can't exactly preheat homes in the day so they stay warm at night, in a cold climate, if the r-values for your homes are ass because everyone has a disconnected suburban shithovel that they're not recouping maintenance costs of when they pay taxes.

These calculations of cost offsets and efficiencies have to be made in context, they have to be based in reality, otherwise we're just arguing about fucking nothing at all. Maybe I will also hold water in the debates for money not being a great indicator of what's possible, probable, or what's the best long term solution for humanity, too, just to put that out there. But God damn this debate infuriates me to no end because people want to have their like, universal one size fits all top down kingly decree take of, well is this good or bad, instead of just understanding a greater, more nuanced take on the subject.

If you wanna have a top-down take on what's the best, you probably want global, big solar satellites, that beam energy down with microwave lasers.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Nuclear fanboys are strange! The won't let it go.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (12 children)

Because it’s really cool tech and unlike burning coal, oil and gas it’s CO2 neutral. And alternatives like fusion reactors are still decades away, at least, and we can’t build renewables fast enough either.

In my opinion shutting down all nuclear powerplants was the stupidest thing the government here in Germany has ever done, especially since coal is still being subsidized and our planet isn’t getting any cooler.

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