this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2024
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As someone who grew up playing games like World of Warcraft and other AAA titles, I’ve seen how the gaming industry has evolved over the years—and not always for the better. One of the most disturbing trends is the rise of gacha games, which are, at their core, thinly veiled gambling systems targeting younger players. And I think it’s time we have a serious conversation about why this form of gaming needs to be heavily restricted, if not outright regulated.

Gacha systems prey on players by offering a sense of excitement and reward, but at the cost of their mental health and well-being. These games are often marketed as "free to play," making them seem harmless, but in reality, they trap players in cycles of spending and gambling. You don’t just buy a game and enjoy its content—you gamble for the chance to get characters, equipment, and other in-game items. It’s all based on luck, with very low odds of getting what you want, which leads players to keep spending in hopes of hitting that jackpot.

This setup is psychologically damaging, especially for younger players who are still developing their sense of self-control. Gacha games condition them to associate spending money with emotional highs, which is the exact same mechanism that fuels gambling addiction. You might think it's just harmless fun, but it’s incredibly easy to fall into a pattern where you're constantly chasing that next dopamine hit, just like a gambler sitting at a slot machine. Over time, this not only leads to financial strain but also deeply ingrained mental health issues, such as anxiety, depression, and a lack of self-control when it comes to spending money.

Countries like Belgium and the Netherlands have already banned loot boxes and gacha systems, recognizing the dangers they pose, especially to younger players. The fact that these systems are still largely unregulated in many other regions, including the U.S., shows just how out of control things have gotten. The gaming industry has shifted from offering well-rounded experiences to creating systems designed to exploit players’ psychological vulnerabilities.

We need to follow Europe’s lead in placing heavy restrictions on gacha and loot boxes. It’s one thing to pay for a game and know what you're getting; it's another to be lured into a never-ending cycle of gambling for content that should be available as part of the game. Gaming should be about fun, skill, and exploration, not exploiting people’s mental health for profit.

It's time for developers and legislators to take responsibility and start protecting the players, especially the younger ones, from these predatory practices.

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[–] [email protected] 70 points 1 month ago (2 children)

It’s time for developers and legislators to take responsibility and start protecting the players, especially the younger ones, from these predatory practices.

They're making fucking bank with these practices. It will have to be stopped by government regulation. Self-regulation of industries has literally never fucking worked once in history. Look at Boeing, which has had the FAA basically glad-handing it for 50 years and it's falling apart at the seams (sometimes literally).

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.

-Upton Sinclair

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I mean, look how fast the ENTIRE industry shifted to battle passes (and still gacha) and away from “loot boxes” the very moment the first country said they’d consider regulation.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Even the ESRB, another example of gaming industry self-regulation, hasn't stopped gaming companies marketing M-rated games to kids or really slowed down sales or access to such games to underage players at all. If anything, they use the M rating as a direct marketing tool to kids: "your parents wouldn't want you to play this so you totally should".

EDIT: autocorrect is dumb

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Ah yes, the ESRB, the group built to avoid actual regulation.

I mean, I get it, to an extent, the MPAA was and is absolute dogshit and filled with weird right-wing Christians who don't like things that show women's sexual pleasure and a lot of other weird censorial decisions.

Like how Hillary Clinton wanted to ban GTA because of the Hot Coffee mod, when the actual "Hot Coffee" minigame wasn't available in an easily accessible way.

So, to that extent, I can understand why they built that system to avoid idiot fucking puritans taking over the ratings sytem, but I generally agree, it's become more of a taboo thing just like the "PARENTAL WARNING EXPLICIT LYRICS" just made people want that version more. (That really worked out, huh, Tipper Gore?)

Without actual enforcement, it becomes something cool for kids to get.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

The AO rating is still the kiss-of-death for game content in North America, enforced by retailers. Even still, the ESRB only came about because the political climate at the time was very much "clean up your shit or we'll do it for you."

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 month ago (6 children)

Don't gamble please for the love of fuck, all gambling is mathematically designed to never pay off for the one gambling

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Quite a few years ago now I went to my nan's house for Christmas.

My cousin, I think he was about 13, had got a £50 Steam voucher for some games. Him and my other cousin who was a couple of year older went to Steam, swapped the voucher for something, and then took that to a gambling site. I don't know if they're still a thing. It was something to do with Counter Strike drops I think. Heavily advertised by YouTubers who ran them, with a bunch of videos showing them winning. The sort of thing they'd be sent to prison for in any right thinking society.

They took that £50, put it in, and clicked. The younger one went "what now?" and the older one just went "oh, nothing. It's gone." A couple of games worth of money, gone. For nothing.

He looked like he was about to cry, and only didn't because he was going through that acting tough phase.

He's an accountant now, and plays crown green bowling. I like to think that was a relatively cheap lesson in why not to fuck around with gambling.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

That's so devastating. I feel awful when kids are let down like that.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

At least that lesson cost mere £50 and not thousands of pounds if he won and wanted to chase that dopamine hit of winning.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

Seems about right. CSGO skin gambling was all the rage 10 years ago.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You're like 5 years late on this realization. Unfortunately not much is changing.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It seems the EU is moving on this issue with their usual tectonic speed.

https://dailywrap.ca/video-game-giants-face-eu-scrutiny-over-exploitative-microtransactions,7070300439647873a

Let's hope they also hit with their usual tectonic force.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Compared to the US, the EU is lightning fast. California probably beats them sometimes, though.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Cali is a hit or miss, the Cali privacy reg has been so watered down compared to the GDPR it feels like the ad industry got it in to prevent future harsher regulations.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Government should set up a site where companies using loot boxes have to open a tax box to know what tax they'll pay that month, to keep things exiting, with the option to buy more tax boxes for a few million per box.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 month ago (13 children)

Without being a gacha game, World of WarCraft is guilty of a lot of the same stuff. You probably know people who flunked out of college due to the addiction, or have heard of parents who neglected their child over that game. It preys on a lot of the same impulses that Diablo and Diablo II seemed to have found by accident, before they were monetized by subscription fees and then microtransactions. And you can see a lot of the same in games like Destiny.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Haven't played WoW in awhile, but do they now have 'you can spend unlimited money' mechanics? Previously it was just stuff like mounts and character transfers and stuff. I know you can also sell tokens for gold, but I thought gold kind of becomes irrelevant at some point. The best gear is bind on drop right? Theoretically I guess you can pay gold for boost runs, which probably counts as an endless money sink.

I kind of have a mental separation in my head between games with unlimited money sinks (like games with energy mechanics) where you can spend and spend and spend and it never stops, vs games that have a finite of things to buy.

It can still be way over priced, but there's a maximum amount of money you can throw at the game. Even Diablo 4, with a relatively huge and highly priced number of cosmetic items has effectively a maximum price (though every new cosmetic increases that price). Vs Diablo Immortal allowing you to spend 10s of thousands of dollars and still need to keep spending. I think unlimited money mechanics should be outlawed or at least fully classified as gambling and regulated accordingly.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I think keeping you addicted so as to continue to paying a monthly subscription is bad on its own, and I don't think it needs to be qualified by how much you spend overall if they're still knowingly capitalizing on that addiction in an unregulated environment. But also, while I don't know the answer to your question for a fact, I would imagine that they do have ways to spend unlimited money in that game if you're so inclined.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Sure, but, technically, without Gacha games I would t have discovered my ex wife sexting another dude. Because she was attempting to hide the money she spent in credit cards I didn't have access to, then wanted me to pay.

Which led me to digging around, discovering the unaltered statement, then she got drunk and the phone was open in her hand playing some stupid virtual bingo and a snap popped up and wouldnt you know it

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 month ago (1 children)

At least make all gacha games R18, no kids should be exposed to this stuff.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago (5 children)

We had to convince my brother in law (13yo) to not spend his birthday money of £85 on Genshin impact skins. Kids are fucked by advertising man

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

I'm no stranger to people paying for skins and all, but when i first heard that kids want vbucks as a Christmas gift my stomach kinda turned.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 month ago (4 children)

It’s a small measure, but I’d really like to see a law where gacha games need to publicly advertise their odds and allow independent verification.

The biggest effect it would have is, the odds would need to be static. Many gacha systems have been accused of putting a hand on the wheel, assuring someone “so close to their needed item” must keep going through a series of failures.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This is already a thing in most gacha games due to laws that already exist in certain countries.

The way the gacha works is very public knowledge for every popular one, and can be verified by the players.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I swear the post sounds like an LLM so much, but if it isn't, congrats to OP on the writing skills

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago

Also it should be required to display prices in local currency. I spent 2.99usd on that fox card game. Ended up costing me 5 bucks canadian

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (9 children)

I was a young idiot making minimum wage and I spent 500 dollars in a gacha game over a three month period. It's been years and I still wake up at night, remember this and feel the strongest remorse.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I’m sorry, it really sounds like it turned into an addiction for you. Very happy that you got away from it. Be careful with addictive substances or activities in your life, some people have a predisposition for it.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I spent $800 on Fallout: Shelter

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

Fuck, my condolences.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I don't allow myself to play any mobile games anymore. Spent like $300 on one of those idle games. Not worth it. I refuse to play any free to play titles at all, no matter the platform these days.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (8 children)

As someone who plays a gacha game (Genshin Impact) I 100% agree. This shit should be kept the hell out of the hands of kids until their brain has at least matured to the point we'd let them go actual gambling.

That said, there's certainly a spread of abusiveness in the games: some are very reasonable and could be played with no money or very little money because they're generous with premium currencies and others are doing a sexy little dance while they steal your wallet.

Regulation around how much you can spend in a month would be reasonable, no kids would be reasonable, requiring clear and published probabilities and what those probabilities mean in terms of how many pulls would be a good start.

I can assure you most gacha players cannot tell you how many pulls you'd need to make for a 0.5% chance pull.

Also maybe outline estimated costs for winning wouldn't be awful, but that's maybe not feasible since there's a lot of variability?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Knowing the odds doesn’t stop children from developing a gambling habit.

We were on the way to banning gambling a couple decades ago, it was illegal online and it was hard for new casinos to open up. Sports betting was illegal.

Now we’ve got FanDuel and gacha and loot boxes and crypto casinos and shitcoin shoveling influencers all this awful shit. And if you look around, the biggest shitbag bullies are the ones who are promoting it, because they know they’ll get their bag and their fans will never turn on them.

You know, because they might win next time.

These people are child predators, just not (always) the sexual kind. Fucking ban it all.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

Knowing the odds doesn’t stop children from developing a gambling habit.

Agreed, and this is why I'm firmly on the no-kids side of things.

If you can't go to a casino until you're 21, why exactly should you be able to gamble online (in any form!) until then either?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (6 children)

Gacha can be moderately acceptable if the math is fully documented and enforced. If you know it will take <= 180 pulls to get Raiden Shogun, and each pull costs $3, then it's just a $540 DLC with extra steps and the tease thst it might be cheaper if you're lucky or have banked pulls.

But transparency is key-- the developer should be expected to offer a calculator or lookup table for any RNG item, especially if it's some combination of multiple drop mechanics or hsrd-to-convert currencies that dissuades back-of-the-envelope estimates.

Even in Vegas, the slot machines are required to disclose their payout rate.

There's also significant differences in the gacha appeal factor. If there are no leaderboards or PvP, and the game mechanics can be completed with F2P only, that is inherently less pressure to spend then on a game where you regularly get your ass handed to you by a someone with a Black Amex and all seven-star limited banner units.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (3 children)

World of Warcraft and Diablo are gacha. Every time you play, you are "pulling" and hoping for a good drop(item). What modern gacha games did, is take that gameplay/psychological feature and directly monetize it(instead of indirectly monetizing it through a subscription/1 time payment).

But both are gambling. I am ok with having age restrictions but we need to be honest with ourselves. And what is "fun" is whatever makes neurons activate. Gambling(ie rpg elements) has always been a core mechanic for many games.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago (5 children)

But both are gambling.

Nah, they are not comparable in a meaningful way. Sure, at a high level, you can apply aspects of "gambling" to both examples. But the biggest and most important point is the ability to spend actual money for additional changes at "winning".

People are against gaming because of some deep-seating fear of Random Number Generation by itself. They are against it because of how easy it is to lose money.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I stopped playing WoW because it didn't value my time. There is a limit to how much you can spend on WoW. Sure, you can buy gold, but it honestly won't help you that much. The upgrades come from the weekly content, mostly.

And then there's the mobile stuff where whales rule the day.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I'm quite sad that most games for smartphones are either gatcha-hell, or add-ridden messes.

What good options are there? I tried OpenTTD for Android, but the UI is really not optimized for such a small screen.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

there's still good games on the app store, you just gotta pay. Stardew is good on phone

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

I remember being pissed when I got shitty cards from a YuGiOh booster pack when I was a kid, never bought new packs again. Only got stuff if I knew its value first. The fact that kids these days are actually falling prey to these systems shows how much more advanced and predatory they are.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Assuming "we" is the US, write your state and federal representatives, not Lemmy. People might agree with you, but you're preaching to the choir.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

How about both? Writing your elected reps is definitely smart, but will be much more effective if there are numerous people calling for the same. I appreciate OP sharing their views, and catloaf sharing a specific action step all of us can do it we are concerned about this matter.

I worked for a few years as a gambling addiction counselor, and these types of games definitely prime people for addiction to gambling. Also, it's worth noting that the demographic with the highest rates of gambling addiction are young men, aged 18-24.

Anyone that's been to a casino can attest that major video game companies also make slot machines. The industry are aware of what they're doing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The interesting thing is that although I've almost never spent money on a gacha system and haven't played much gacha systems recently, my brain subconsciously craved for more but in a safer way.

That's why I created the JavaScript weighted playlist for myself: A random selection of songs from my music library where some songs play (much) more than others. Getting a super rare song is akin to getting a top tier drop. Additionally, the playback rate is randomized to a normal distribution, giving the tiny chance that a rare song can play with a wild playback rate. And if that wasn't enough, some Geometry Dash related songs can randomly skip to the next song, simulating watching someone try to beat some demon level.

I've created a skinner box for my brain that sometimes causes me to waste hours just clicking on the "next song" button to see what shows up next. My wallet was not harmed in the process (although it might soon be because I want it to work on a portable device, but that money would go to some niche open source hardware thing rather than a greedy gacha publisher).

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