this post was submitted on 12 May 2024
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[–] [email protected] 55 points 5 months ago (2 children)

The title is not entirely correct. They don't plant to "introduce" conscription. Germany had conscription from its formation of the Bundeswehr in 1955 until it was put on hiatus in 2011 because people back then thought that Ivan was no longer a problem. So what they think about is not "introducing" but just reactivate it.

The changes will be that while before 2011, conscription was only for men, it is planned to be for both sexes, and military service will no longer the one preferred service (back then, you had to go through quite some hoops if you did not want to serve in the Bundeswehr and do your time in e.g. social services). This time, the military option is just one of several that can be chosen.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago

That makes sense and good on them for conscription not caring about gender

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

At this stage it's all hot air. Nobody has even started talking about how to finance it and the defense minister isn't even 100% sure he will get his requested additional funds for the next cycle. When somebody asked him about the topic he replied that he isn't categorically against it but he would have to finance (and restructure, as the necessary infrastructure for it has been degraded/scrapped) more important topics first.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

That is so sad, these kinds of times should already be over in humanity's history. Why doesn't anyone have a solution? Are the war mongering powers just waiting for the new nuclear deterrent? Future AI terminators pls just go straight to Russia/China/USA leadership and let the humans be

[–] [email protected] 24 points 5 months ago (3 children)

It’s because the leaders aren’t the ones fighting the battles or being targeted. They’re playing chess somewhere far from the violence.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (8 children)

We should just solve conflicts by throwing the presidents or monarchs of the opposing countries in an arena to fight to death.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

I think it'd be better if we disregarded highly authoritarian leaders in general and embraced socialism. Back in the day, kings and emperors fought their battles, but it didn't make their feudalism any less... feudal.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Let's say your country was about to be invaded, your house stolen and you sent elsewhere or killed so that citizens of the invading country could occupy your house and your land instead.

And all of that not happening was hinged on the physical prowess of an old guy who's probably been in politics for decades.

How helpless would you feel?

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (8 children)

This is an unserious proposal. Germany spends about 1.5 percent of its GDP(*) on defence, much of it wasted, and increasing it to even 2 percent has involved painful and extended political wrangling. If the country collectively cannot find the will to tweak its budget to fund a modest increase in defence spending, it is not going to countenance universal conscription.

(*) GDP, not budget; error pointed out by Enkrod

[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago (3 children)

This is PATENTLY wrong. It's 1.49% of GDP, not budget.

Defense budget is 10.9% of the governments budget, it's the second largest budgeted item after social wellfare and in front of infrastructure (which is crumbling) and debt. To increase it to 2% of gross domestic product means spending an additional amount equal to the entire budget for education and research.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

Oh wow, this is the first time I see this difference mentioned. NATO really expects that much military spending?

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's a serious proposal, but not as a universal conscription. It's intended to only call everyone in for the health check and use that as a way to get young people interested in the army.

There are different models floating around, the most serious being that everyone (including women) gets called in and you basically choose between civil service and army. The civilian side can ramp up slots rather quickly, the army doesn't. So the army probably will ramp up over several years.

Also, I wouldn't call 100 billion € a "modest increase".

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

To be honest, conscription aside, I think a gap year of civil service would be a good idea. It gives you a break from school - university - work, you don't feel like you lost time since everyone has to do it, and you get into a mindset outside of your preplanned route, which might do you good.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

I'm going to have to disagree. It's forced labour, no amount of pretty words changes that. It's also not a "break" if you have to work, and considering that you'd be unskilled and probably physical labour with no (simple) way for you to quit if faced with abuse, it probably won't even be under good conditions or compensated fairly.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

To be honest, getting a majority to agree that the youth should do what most other generations did seems easier than taking money out of other budgets. Even before Russias attack there had been calls to make every young person do a year or Service for society. The plan was more socially beneficial back then but the sentiment of just ignoring what the younger generation wants isn't new

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

In the USA I had to sign up for the draft when I came of age, but luckily the draft system hasn't been utilized since 1973.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago (11 children)
[–] [email protected] 53 points 5 months ago (16 children)

It isn't just about the military. I've not read the article, but Germany suffers from not having enough people working in social services. This problem got worse after getting rid of conscription. You could either choose military service or social work.

By reintroducing it, they hope to fill in some gaps.

[–] [email protected] 79 points 5 months ago (1 children)

"What should we do to get more people working in the health sector?"

"Better pay and more manageable shifts!"

"Roll back privatization to shift the focus to sustainability over profits!"

"I'd just enslave the youth again."

[Employee 1& 2 get defenestrated for a change]

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Defenestrated? You think the German military has that large of a budget?!

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (5 children)

You can use the same window more than once

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago

Yeah, instead of actually fixing the system and paying people normal wages, while also fixing the stupid education/certification system that social service workers need to go through, let's just throw a bunch of teenagers at it, it will surely fix our problems!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

You could either choose military service or social work.

Also some hospital work. Bedpan cleaning, etc.

But it kept you out of the army, and took the strain off of hospitals and social services.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago

Sometimes open war comes upon you, whether you risk it or not.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Probably that, and also gender equality. I'm not really in the favor of drafting, but it's unfair that men have to go and women don't.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

i don;t like conscription into the military but i've always felt some sort of manatory non-military civil or social service or peace corps participation would do a lot for encouraging civic participation in exchange for some sort of universal educational system or some form of reimbursement for secondary education.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

in exchange for some sort of universal educational system or some form of reimbursement for secondary education.

That's supposed to be the taxes you pay for the rest of you life

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

Well, the main opposition party wants that... Sooo.... Maybe in the future, maybe not....

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)
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